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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 00:44
ccoker View Drop Down
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spent some time this evening comparing a few scopes
around the neigborhood, looking at stuff from 50 to 300 yards away as dusk fell and night came on, spent about an hour

scopes tested, Kahles 3-10 cl MZ, Swarovski 3-10 American, Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14 and a Burris Signature Select 4-16 that came on a lightly used RRA varmint upper

well, I have to say the Kahles was the clearest and sharpest and the brightest
I was looking at street signs 250 yards away, license plates, in the trees, cars, etc..

the Swarovksi was the next best followed by the Zeiss and the surprise was the Burris, it was almost a tie with the Zeiss, surprisingly good, wasn't impressed with a FF2 4.5-14 I got a few years ago and returned it

trying to read license plate numbers where I could see the car but couldn't see the license plate with just my eyes, reading the numbers on houses, etc..

with the Kahles at all ranges, I felt I could have "taken the shot" quicker than with the other scopes..  I have two, one with the 4a reticle and one the the plex, definitely like the 4a

I have also recently had the new nikon 3-12 with the BDC, nice scope, still think it's great glass for the money, just didn't really like the BDC reticle in use, had Leupolds, a few other Monarchs, etc...

I think I will sell the Zeiss and the Swarovski, and see if I can trade out my brand new Kahles CL plex for a 4a reticle version

I like the idea of the Multizero on my 308 but don't think it really is necassary on the 270
I just got a Sako 85 Finnlight 270 that one of the CLs will go on and am trying to decide on whether to keep the tikka t3 stainless lite  308 I got a few months ago that's a one holer with my handloads or a Sako 75 greywolf stainless 308 I got a few weeks ago..

they are all VERY good scopes and the difference is NOT dramatic, it's a subtle thing and something that the average person looking through any of them at day time would be able to notice..

that's something I want to point out, a $1000 scope is NOT twice as good as a $500 scope or 4x better than a 250 dollar scope...    they are better and if 99% of your shots are in decent light and you have a well made scope that holds it zero you are still going to be bringing home the bacon so to speak, the higher end scopes just offer a bit sharper, clearer, easier to distinguish and resolve images (such as counting the antlers on a deer at 250 yards right at last legal light)

my dad's old '66 sako 22-250 wears an old 2-7 Leupold that surely isn't as nice as these Kahles scopes but god help the unlucky animal that gets in the crosshairs :)
as he says, "if I can see em, they're dead"

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 00:51
ccoker View Drop Down
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I failed to mention, I also checked low to middle magnifications, checking FOV, image resolution, etc..  also asked my 11 year old son (who hunts) to compare the Kahles and the Zwarovski for a few minutes, his vote was for the Kahles, both at trying to read a license plate at about 125 yards where you couldn't see the plate with your naked eyes and at about 30-50 yards at low power and asking him to pick out objects, throw the scope up and which one did he feel he could have taken a shot with quicker..

same thing
I also checked the tops of trees at various distances with no street lights had any effect, just looking for resolution and clarity
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 02:11
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I did a different test with different scopes, and so far I am of the same opinion. When it comes down to purely the optics (visibility of target), then an expensive scope and a reasonably decent scope at half the price is very similiar.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 09:17
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Looks like you gave a very good and unbiased review. Your results when compared to others seem to be forming a consistent pattern. It appears that if Burris could go back to a more consistent product and improve their reputation in CS they would be able to have a lot better rating. Welcome to OT glad to have you here on OT.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 09:39
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thanks for the heads up . I agree that the  cost vs performance grid isn't a straight line, and tends to flatten out as the price goes up ( in general ) .

Edited by martin3175 - March/14/2008 at 09:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 09:47
tahqua View Drop Down
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Nice write up and like has already been said, there is some consistency with others opinions.
Well doneThunbs%20Up


Edited by tahqua - March/14/2008 at 10:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 09:57
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Nicely done, and will utter the same as many have seen. The Kahles is a wicked buy right now.

Rob
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 10:47
ccoker View Drop Down
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I have been reading this forum for years but not posting...

I also try to isolate things like reticles vs glass when I am comparing things
I drive my wife nuts as I am very analytical and go off the deep end when I am into things
I am NOT one of those guys who just uses whatever and is happy with it, never have been.
Played guitar for a long time and went through gear like crazy and had lots of things custom made because I wasn't satisfied with what's out there.. same thing with mountain bikes and even got into the business building and selling custom mountain bikes as a result..


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 10:55
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i am new to this forum but would like to say you have done your homework well. it is good to have such a deep data base with all these years of shooting experience behind a fellow. but as you have written ,actuall side by side comparisons, if possible will answer most of a persons questions,  well doneExcellentYippee
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 11:08
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Nice job CC!  Welcome to the O.T.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 12:16
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exceptional write-up I appreciate the report, I too am looking to upgrade shortly and Kahles is on the short list.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2008 at 22:19
ccoker View Drop Down
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thanks.
I have been an avid gun guy and hunter since I was a little kid in south Texas.
it's a lot of fun, meet some great people, time in the outdoors with family and friends, teaching my son to shoot and hunt the right way, the old school way of patience and taking one clean shot and of respect for the land, the animals and the people we hunt with.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2008 at 09:20
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Thanks for taking the time to do this and then report your findings. You are certainly not the only one that has found this to be true. I would agree that the Burris could make huge leaps if they were to work on eye box and CS. I hope they are reading that there are a lot of folks that are reporting these as complaints, and could certainly help themselves greatly by taking this info and doing something with it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2008 at 09:27
ccoker View Drop Down
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Burris and Nikon both suffer in the CS rep a bit..

one of the things some of the highend bike manufacturers do right  is to be on the main cycling forum and listen to the customers complaints
some are even smart enough to go ask them what they want to see...


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2008 at 10:28
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It has been stated here that the Kahles are a good buy right now. I'm looking for a CL 2-7X36, and can't find anyone that has a good price, and has some in stock. SWFA's price was great, but as of Tuesday, they have no more. Anybody know where I can look?
 
Thanks,
Lee
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