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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2012 at 07:34
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I'm shopping for a scope for my AR. This will be my first scope purchase, so I'm looking for some help/suggestions. My criteria is:

1) Must be a shorter scope. I'd like to stay under 11", and would rather stay around 9-10", which seems near impossible in my price range.
2) Variable power. Would like high power to be 5+.
3) Would like a BDC recticle, or something that can be used as such.
4) Illumination would be nice for night shooting, but is not a must. I would rather spend the money on better optical quality than this feature.
5) would like to stay around $250, and definitely not over $300. I know this is really cheap as far as the world of optics goes, but that's all I have to work with right now. I will upgrade in a year or 2 when I have the money to do so.

Will be doing some plinking, but will mostly be used for shooting beavers, yotes, and other varmints out to about 300yds.

Any suggestions??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2012 at 07:52
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Take a look at the Leatherwood 14CMR.  I have one on CZ550 375H&H Magnum and really like it.  Try the sample list... occasionally there is one there.  The glass is good, the reticle is very good, it has a lot of adjustment.  Holds up to the 375 H&H.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2012 at 08:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2012 at 08:53
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Nikon's M-223 line in either 1-4x or 2-8x may be ones to consider. 
 
The point blank reticle on the 1-4x isn't ideal.  Nothing more than their duplex reticle with a dot.
 
2-8X can be had with their BDC 600 reticle.
 
Millet has similar offerings and Burris is another option.  Burris MTAC line has their CQ 5.56 reticle but one listed on the Samplelist is going for $319.
 
 
There is also a Falcon Menace 1.5-5 scope with their LP20 reticle that would work for you.  I have no experience with Falcon scopes but should work for your application.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2012 at 08:59
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Originally posted by Marine24 Marine24 wrote:

Nikon's M-223 line in either 1-4x or 2-8x may be ones to consider. 
 
The point blank reticle on the 1-4x isn't ideal.  Nothing more than their duplex reticle with a dot.
 
2-8X can be had with their BDC 600 reticle.
 
Millet has similar offerings and Burris is another option.  Burris MTAC line has their CQ 5.56 reticle but one listed on the Samplelist is going for $319.
 
 
There is also a Falcon Menace 1.5-5 scope with their LP20 reticle that would work for you.  I have no experience with Falcon scopes but should work for your application.
 
if you could go a little over the 300 mark the Burris MTAC would be a good value buy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2012 at 09:59
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Take a look at the Leatherwood 14CMR.  I have one on CZ550 375H&H Magnum and really like it.  Try the sample list... occasionally there is one there.  The glass is good, the reticle is very good, it has a lot of adjustment.  Holds up to the 375 H&H.

 
KB, great suggestion, this is one of the most under rated scopes out there.  This is very clear, and every aspect works great.
 
I still think that the SS 1-4 is the best though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2012 at 22:28
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys. All look like they would be good, just worried about hitting a smaller moving target at 300 yds with the ones that max out at 4x. Not that 5x is a whole lot more, but I'm really liking the Falcon. The only thing holding me back is the lack of recent reviews. I've found several from 2008, but it looks like they've made several changes to it since then. Anyone have any experience with this scope? I'm also very interested in the vortex diamondback, and burris timberline. If you had to choose between those 3, which would it be?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2012 at 12:49
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Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Take a look at the Leatherwood 14CMR.  I have one on CZ550 375H&H Magnum and really like it.  Try the sample list... occasionally there is one there.  The glass is good, the reticle is very good, it has a lot of adjustment.  Holds up to the 375 H&H.

 
KB, great suggestion, this is one of the most under rated scopes out there.  This is very clear, and every aspect works great.
 
I still think that the SS 1-4 is the best though.


But it doesn't meet the OP's stated criteria for overall length, magnification, or price.

I don't know of any scope available that combines sub 11" length, at least 5X on the top end, a BDC reticle, and sub $300 price except for the aforementioned Falcon Menace 1-5X30, Vortex Diamondback 1.75-5X32, and Burris Timberline 3-9X32.  I have zero experience with Falcon optics, so I can neither recommend nor criticize it; I'm merely looking at specs.  I don't have experience with the Burris Timberline scopes either, however I was very disappointed in the optical performance of previous Burris compact series scopes like the Ultra Mags, and I'm not a fan of the Ballistic Plex reticle at all.  I have been impressed with Vortex scopes within their respective price points, and Vortex really stands behind their products, so minus any exerience with Falcon optics, I'd be inclined to go with the Vortex among those 3 choices.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2012 at 13:58
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CMR is within 6% of the suggested price and  " would like high power to be 5+"  is not a requirement.  It is 10.2inches, weighs about a pound, has excellent illiumination... well suited for lowlight and dark applications, BDC reticle.  It is one of the best values on the market...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2012 at 16:29
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Originally posted by DocEvans DocEvans wrote:


5) would like to stay around $250, and definitely not over $300. 


$300 was his max upper limit, and he was targeting $250.  On the length, the first SWFA link says it's 10.2" long, the rest say 11.29".  I clicked on the 11.29" ones first.  Since you own one, I assume the 11.29" spec is a typo.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2012 at 17:58
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by DocEvans DocEvans wrote:


5) would like to stay around $250, and definitely not over $300. 


$300 was his max upper limit, and he was targeting $250.  On the length, the first SWFA link says it's 10.2" long, the rest say 11.29".  I clicked on the 11.29" ones first.  Since you own one, I assume the 11.29" spec is a typo.


 +Sorry... $17.95 difference is no difference to me...

Mine is EXACTLY 10.2inches, I've checked before, but JUST FOR YOU, Ted, I checked again.  And, you can get the scope with the Burris P.E.P.R. mount for $330.00(10% more), and it STILL has all the features he asked for... he still has to mount it... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2012 at 18:54
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You know me Im all about the fixed 6x42 Super Sniper its just under $300 but longer than he wants and not a variable still its a solid scope I love mine.
There are some used ones on samplelist.com also.
SPL15346 SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view SS6X42, Matte, Mil-Dot, 30mm
$249.95
SPL16197 SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view SS6X42, Matte, Mil-Dot, 30mm
$249.95
SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Riflescope SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS6X42MQ
  • Matte Finish
  • Patented Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm Tube
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • .10 Mrad
$299.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2012 at 19:36
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by DocEvans DocEvans wrote:


5) would like to stay around $250, and definitely not over $300. 


$300 was his max upper limit, and he was targeting $250.  On the length, the first SWFA link says it's 10.2" long, the rest say 11.29".  I clicked on the 11.29" ones first.  Since you own one, I assume the 11.29" spec is a typo.


 +Sorry... $17.95 difference is no difference to me...

Mine is EXACTLY 10.2inches, I've checked before, but JUST FOR YOU, Ted, I checked again.  And, you can get the scope with the Burris P.E.P.R. mount for $330.00(10% more), and it STILL has all the features he asked for... he still has to mount it... 


No need for the sarcasm and all caps, Dan.  I merely pointed out for the sake of the OP that the scope doesn't meet his listed requirements, which is a statement of fact.  He said "definitely not over $300," and emphasized that he was really trying to stay within $250.  Sure, if that was the only deviation from his requirements, I could see where that might be taken into consideration in lieu of its adherence to his other requirements, but that wasn't the only deviation from his list.  On the length, I stated that the link I opened had incorrect specs.  I had no cause to doubt those specs.  Once you said it was 10.2", I looked again, and noticed that the first of the 3 listings on the page said 10.2 and stated such.  On the power, he said "5+" on the upper end.  That tells me that he really wants more than 5X, but is wiling to settle for 5X to get the other features he wants.  Otherwise, why would he put the "+" after 5X if he was willing to settle for 4X?  Most likely, he's discovered he'll have a difficult time staying within his price and/or overall length limits by going over 5X.  Regardless, it's a moot point since he clarified in a follow-up post that he wants more than 4X.  So, you see, it does not "have all the features he asked for," but I guess 2 out of 4 ain't bad.  Geez... lighten up, brother!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2012 at 20:06
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by DocEvans DocEvans wrote:


5) would like to stay around $250, and definitely not over $300. 


$300 was his max upper limit, and he was targeting $250.  On the length, the first SWFA link says it's 10.2" long, the rest say 11.29".  I clicked on the 11.29" ones first.  Since you own one, I assume the 11.29" spec is a typo.


 +Sorry... $17.95 difference is no difference to me...

Mine is EXACTLY 10.2inches, I've checked before, but JUST FOR YOU, Ted, I checked again.  And, you can get the scope with the Burris P.E.P.R. mount for $330.00(10% more), and it STILL has all the features he asked for... he still has to mount it... 


No need for the sarcasm and all caps, Dan.  I merely pointed out for the sake of the OP that the scope doesn't meet his listed requirements, which is a statement of fact.  He said "definitely not over $300," and emphasized that he was really trying to stay within $250.  Sure, if that was the only deviation from his requirements, I could see where that might be taken into consideration in lieu of its adherence to his other requirements, but that wasn't the only deviation from his list.  On the length, I stated that the link I opened had incorrect specs.  I had no cause to doubt those specs.  Once you said it was 10.2", I looked again, and noticed that the first of the 3 listings on the page said 10.2 and stated such.  On the power, he said "5+" on the upper end.  That tells me that he really wants more than 5X, but is wiling to settle for 5X to get the other features he wants.  Otherwise, why would he put the "+" after 5X if he was willing to settle for 4X?  Most likely, he's discovered he'll have a difficult time staying within his price and/or overall length limits by going over 5X.  Regardless, it's a moot point since he clarified in a follow-up post that he wants more than 4X.  So, you see, it does not "have all the features he asked for," but I guess 2 out of 4 ain't bad.  Geez... lighten up, brother!
I guess it all depends on what you believe a "requirement" is...  He said he would like 5x +, didn't say he HAD to have it.  In a contract "would like to have" is a goal, not a requirement...

As for lightening up... I've never been heavy...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2012 at 21:14
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:


I guess it all depends on what you believe a "requirement" is...  He said he would like 5x +, didn't say he HAD to have it.  In a contract "would like to have" is a goal, not a requirement...

















Well, I can only go on what he said and assume he meant what he said.  If you're going to interpret the use of the word "like" as an optional goal, then you could recommend virtually any scope, since he used "like" in conjunction with all his listed requirements.

But again, he did clarify he wanted more than 4X in his follow-up post, so he pretty much settled the issue that "5X+" was, in fact, a requirement.

It's all good.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2012 at 07:53
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I know you had some very specifics wants, but as already mentioned i would look closely at samplelist.com. There are some very nice scopes on there in your budget but they will exceed your length requirements and have no illumination. Below are a few i would consider. 

Good luck in your search, let us know what you decide on. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 07:37
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Looks like its coming down to the falcon menace on the sample list for $199 or a barely used vortex viper 2-7x with PEPR mount for $235. I have never been this indecisive about anything, so someone please pick one for me haha. The falcon seems to fit my specs the best, but that viper with mount seems like a great deal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 10:30
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Falcon's have a very poor reputation, while Vortex's is stellar! If either scope should fail, I would rather deal with Vortex than Falcon. Just my.02.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 10:46
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Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Falcon's have a very poor reputation, while Vortex's is stellar! If either scope should fail, I would rather deal with Vortex than Falcon. Just my.02.


+1

Don't know about Falcon, but I do have first hand experience with Vortex's first-class customer support.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 12:16
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Get the Viper.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 13:22
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No question, get the Viper.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 14:58
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  i bought the falcon menace 1.5-5x30 IR for a low cost application with the type of reticle i wanted for that. here is a short review on it.
 
  for reference,here are some examples of what i actually consider are great value scopes for what you actually get and  paying higher $ you enter the world of diminishing returns: vortex viper pst 1-4,weaver tactical 1-5,sightron 1-7,swfa ss 1-4 and 1-6,...with the exception of needed applications(example,if i made my living knocking down doors etc.,then $ is not a factor).
 
 
  what i like about the falcon:
 
   the glass is beyond reproach,especially for the price. it's clear and bright and could very easily be on a higher $ scope.
 
  the quality,feel and looks are above it's $ point. the magnification ring in particular is exceptional,it's rubber armored that's hard,tough and yet easy on the skin but with friction/grip and you know the rubber WILL NOT come loose,ever. it turns very smoothly from one end to the other without any "ratchety" feel to it like on cheap scopes.
 
  the turret adjustments track true on mine and i have tested it(i haven't tested to the outer limits,had no need). the clicks are audible and feel good and positive. semi-hard clicks,not mushy but not as hard as others(but it wears caps so shouldn't get bumped,even without caps not easily bumped). they are low and basically out of the way without caps and only semi tall with.
 
  the reticle is very useful and what i was looking for(your call),mil based with plenty of ele/win hash marks and a circle for close in(very,very similar to the leupold SPR reticle but with 2 mil hashes instead of 2.5 which is MUCH better imo).
 
  mil reticle with mil adjustments.
 
  you don't really have to move your head between low and high magnifications(if you set up the relief properly).
 
  the illumination works as it should and useful in low light or night with good low and high intensities. it is not true-bright-daylight-visible but most others are not either,including the ones that people say/swear are(most people don't have a clue what this actually requires)(this is over-rated by many in magnified optics imo).
 
  what i don't like about it:
 
  at the lowest magnification there is barreling(it's possible this may be on purpose to get a wider FOV @ 1.5x),i forget exactly right now where it disappears,i think it's somewhere about 2x.  keep in mind that some scopes costing much more can have this too,for example the leupold vx-6 1-6($800-900) has barreling too at 1x,...just to be fair.
 
  the exit pupil is particularly small at 1.5x imo. pay no attention to the spec that swfa gives(EP=20-6). falcon scopes homepage doesn't even give the EP specs,this is just something that swfa made up from dividing the objective lens size by 1.5. the EP @ 1.5x is actually more like 9mm. the EP @ 5x is correct at 6mm.
 
 
 
 
  by the way,this is neither a pro or con but i though i would mention,...the actual,true magnification is actually more like 1.75-5.25.
 
  hope this helps.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 15:17
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Originally posted by priler priler wrote:

  i bought the falcon menace 1.5-5x30 IR for a low cost application with the type of reticle i wanted for that. here is a short review on it.
 
  for reference,here are some examples of what i actually consider are great value scopes for what you actually get and  paying higher $ you enter the world of diminishing returns: vortex viper pst 1-4,weaver tactical 1-5,sightron 1-7,swfa ss 1-4 and 1-6,...with the exception of needed applications(example,if i made my living knocking down doors etc.,then $ is not a factor).
 
 
  what i like about the falcon:
 
   the glass is beyond reproach,especially for the price. it's clear and bright and could very easily be on a higher $ scope.
 
  the quality,feel and looks are above it's $ point. the magnification ring in particular is exceptional,it's rubber armored that's hard,tough and yet easy on the skin but with friction/grip and you know the rubber WILL NOT come loose,ever. it turns very smoothly from one end to the other without any "ratchety" feel to it like on cheap scopes.
 
  the turret adjustments track true on mine and i have tested it(i haven't tested to the outer limits,had no need). the clicks are audible and feel good and positive. semi-hard clicks,not mushy but not as hard as others(but it wears caps so shouldn't get bumped,even without caps not easily bumped). they are low and basically out of the way without caps and only semi tall with.
 
  the reticle is very useful and what i was looking for(your call),mil based with plenty of ele/win hash marks and a circle for close in(very,very similar to the leupold SPR reticle but with 2 mil hashes instead of 2.5 which is MUCH better imo).
 
  mil reticle with mil adjustments.
 
  you don't really have to move your head between low and high magnifications(if you set up the relief properly).
 
  the illumination works as it should and useful in low light or night with good low and high intensities. it is not true-bright-daylight-visible but most others are not either,including the ones that people say/swear are(most people don't have a clue what this actually requires)(this is over-rated by many in magnified optics imo).
 
  what i don't like about it:
 
  at the lowest magnification there is barreling(it's possible this may be on purpose to get a wider FOV @ 1.5x),i forget exactly right now where it disappears,i think it's somewhere about 2x.  keep in mind that some scopes costing much more can have this too,for example the leupold vx-6 1-6($800-900) has barreling too at 1x,...just to be fair.
 
  the exit pupil is particularly small at 1.5x imo. pay no attention to the spec that swfa gives(EP=20-6). falcon scopes homepage doesn't even give the EP specs,2)this is just something that swfa made up from dividing the objective lens size by 1.5. the EP @ 1.5x is actually more like 9mm. the EP @ 5x is correct at 6mm.
 
 
 
 
 1) by the way,this is neither a pro or con but i though i would mention,...the actual,true magnification is actually more like 1.75-5.25.
 
  hope this helps.
Exactly what method did you use to determine that?

AND... 2) Exit pupil is, by definition, eyepiece focal length divided by telescopic focal ratio or, more simply aperture divided by magnification.  With a 1.5-5x30 scope, the range of exit pupil is 20-6... 

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  1)by comparing it to a bunch of other scopes that i know the magnifications given are correct. i had to triple check to make sure. not an issue though.
 
  2) i suggest you walk right over to one and check for yourself. just because a million people repeat the same thing over and over,doesn't make it true. this is especially true for low variables that begin with 1x or 1.5x.
 
  are you going to tell me that the EP @ 1x on the swfa ss 1-6 is going to be 24mm?,because if you are,you're lying,..at least to yourself.  i can give you a technical reason,in fact,why that would be impossible.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 16:28
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