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Scope Selection for Remington 700 Ultimate

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 16:34
Dirtdog1962 View Drop Down
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Hello,

      I would greatly appreciate some expert opinion and guidance on scope selection for the Remington 700 Ultimate muzzleloader that I have currently being shipped to my local FFL. I'm trying to put this together in the 11th hour in hopes of using it for the late muzzleloader season in Virginia that starts on December13th.

    Just locating the gun itself proved to be challenging...  I have ordered it twice in the last three days only to receive an email stating that my order had been canceled vise confirming shipment /tracking number. I finally found someone that could actually put their hands on the weapon and ship it to me second day air.

     If the Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 was still in production and available, I would have already ordered it from SWFA with out hesitation.   I bought one here for my 1895 SBL 45-70 and it has truly exceeded my expectations for clarity, contrast and performance in low light. 

     The Remington 700 ultimate boasts: accuracy to 300 yards... Having said that, my comfort zone with the muzzleloader (at least for now) is 200 yards.  I decided to purchase the Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzleloader to extend the reach of my ethical shot with a significant increase in kinetic energy. From what I have read and understand the new Zeiss Tarra, it seems to fall short of the old Conquest and therefor is not an option. 

     If the the Zeiss HD5 is the only way that I can get the same low light performance, then I will have no choice but to purchase the Zeiss 2-10x42 mm at more than twice the price of my original Conquest.  I really don't want to spend $879.95 for the HD5 and if there was another alternative that could produce the same low light performance that I have become accustomed to in a Lower price range then I would like to consider the option.

    None of the BDC muzzleloader specific scopes are a viable option because the whole point of getting the Remington 700 Utimate is to load with 4 pellets (200 grain) and at least from what I have read,  none of the muzzleloader scopes are able to compensate for the extra 50 grains of powder.

    One of the most thorough reviews of the Remington 700 ultimate that I read was conducted with the Hawke Endurance 30 2.5-10x 50 scope with illuminated LR. Ballistic Reticle...  But I know nothing about the quality and performance of these scopes. 

    After 30 years of military service you would figure that I could resolve this issue without help, but the truth that when it comes down to knowing and understanding completely which scopes can live up to the expectations of my old zeiss Conquest... I'm clueless.

Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated... I need to place more order ASAP!

Respectfully,

Dirtdog

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 17:34
Peddler View Drop Down
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I don't want to blow smoke on your party but I wouldn't use pellets if they were free. Buy some Blackhorn 209 and work up a load. Nobody in the muzzloader community would use pellets. Loose powder offers so much more,. Check out some muzzleloader forums and see what they have to say.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 19:16
Dirtdog1962 View Drop Down
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     Noted... Thanks Peddler!!!  You must be a true legend in your own mind.  Big Grin  I've dealt with your kind throughout my 30 years of military service. Please don't flatter yourself...You didn't blow any smoke on my party. FYI The isn't much in the way of any posted data/loads with loose powder/Blackhorn 209 for this muzzleloader... Maybe you missed the part whereas the gun I purchased is still in transit from Northern Firearms located in Walker, MN and has yet to be transferred to me with opening day of late muzzleloader season only a week away. it wasn't easy to even find the cut down .308 brass with rifle primers  the weapon uses to ignite the powder... At least from my prospective, I'm in uncharted waters and do not have the luxury to spend several days/weeks at the range working up/verifying loose powder loads... especially when I've been using triple 777 in my TC Triumph and consistently maintain  1 1/2 groups...

      I'm new here at SWFA... but NOT new to the sport of hunting with a muzzleloader. Maybe I took the easy way out using pellets in my Triumph, but I would rather spend my time in the field hunting than hanging out at the range once I know my weapon is capable of allowing me to make ethical shots... I guess it must be working because I was able to harvest 3 trophy Buck with that smallest being 142 7/8th and the largest 167 11/16 all in the same season last year... Can your boys in the muzzleloader forum teach those skills???

     I'm not here to debate loose powder over pellets... Whitehots over Triple 777, choice of bullets, or which MMP sabots to use with my magnum loads... I was hoping to get some solid advice on scope selection for my Remington 700 Ultimate.  I would have thought a self-proclaimed Optics Master Extraordinaire like yourself would have had more to contribute than two lines for the purpose of taking a pot shots at a new member... Obviously I am in the WRONG PLACE and if SWFA doesn't want my money there are plenty of other small business that would be more than will to help vice making snide remarks.... and passive aggressive behavior.

     I'm sure that this post will be removed ASAP... but I want ALL at SWFA to know that it is your arrogance that has convinced me that I need to do business else where... I wonder how many other potential customers you have pushed away.... 

Thanks for NOTHING

Kevin Wilhelm

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 19:37
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No need for this to proceed in anger.
I find the Conquest with 4A reticle is great for low light. I have not seen the HD5 but if the glass is the same it is quite good. But you mention BDC reticles and between Nikon up to Steiner scopes I have, they are poor in low light.
My smoke poles are custom flint locks, other than a custom Hawken. I have no choice but black powder and round ball.....and definitely no scopes. I would not be allowed on club grounds      
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 19:46
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Maybe meopta meopro. Optically very good.

Just an Fyi for u. Peddler doesn't work for swfa. 99% of the folks on this forum and just normal folks. No need to get pissed at SWFA because he suggested u use a different powder. I can assure u he meant know ill will towards u just shared a suggestion.

Welcome to the forum, lots of good folks here.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 19:47
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Dirtdog:

Your attitude leaves something to be desired.  What is it all about ?

The Zeiss 3-9x40 is a very nice scope, and if you have one, pull it off

your rifle, mount it and go to work.  Did you also order rings for that new

Remington?

I know rifles and muzzleloaders somewhat, but 250-300 yds. with

a muzzleloader, you may be in for a big surprise. Smile

Good luck, you may need it. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 20:17
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Welcome to Optics Talk and thank you for your service. Hope you stay around. I think it was just a misunderstanding. 
Peddler is a member in good standing and I'm sure he didn't mean to offend you. 

Peace.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 21:37
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Thank-you Cheaptrick  I'm sure that I could have learned a lot from you... I was hoping that the majority of the members here at SWFA were more like you.   Unfortunately, the tone here has already been set and nothing good could possible come from this thread, or my time spent here.  Could you, or one of the other Moderators please closeout/delete this thread that I started... and remove my access to  the forum.  My time here at SWFA was short lived.

HDhnter's AKA Dr. Phill's reply only serves to fuel the fire in yet again passive aggressive way and validated for me that I need to take my business elsewhere. 

Why would disassemble a weapon currently scoped with my Zeiss Conquest... I know that its an awesome scope... if it was still in production I wouldn't have even second guessed my selection in scopes... I need to purchase a new scope, NOT repurpose one that is already mounted to my 1895 SBL 45-70 that I can drive tacks with... Then he asks if I have thought about scope base/rings... I spent 30 years in the military... 10 of those years were spent as an E9... Maybe... just maybe I know a little something about putting together a weapon... Warne tactical base and rings are the only mount I would consider using on the new Rem 700.  Furthermore, he makes comments about the reach (250-300 yards) of the new Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzleloader, but its obvious that he knows nothing about the ballistics and potential of Remington's new ignition system and the simple fact that its already been proven that this weapon spits out 250 grain sabots at 2400 FPS.  If the new Rem 700 Ultimate wasn't so hard to come by...does anyone really think that I would wait until that 11th hour to switch from my old faithful TC Triumph. Lastly, I care not about his perception of my attitude... Nor would I even consider explaining myself to the likes of someone who hides behind complete anonymity in his profile...

SWFA obviously has more than enough business that they don't want my money... I was really looking forward to learning from some of the experts that others told me that I would find here... I will gladly take my business elsewhere. 

To anyone else that wants t chime in and contribute to this thread... don't waist your time/effort.  I will NOT be coming back.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2014 at 22:11
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Imagine what that guy would have said to those poor customer service ladies I waited for over an hour on hold last week. If his beloved conquest fogged like mine did - goodness!

Edited by osprey - December/04/2014 at 09:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 00:11
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Yikes. I've seen some thin skinned irritable people over the years, but this might take the cake.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 03:53
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Wow. I was just trying to help out with a powder suggestion.I guess he already knows his powder.

I love spending time at the range, guess he doesnt.

Sorry guys my comment wasn't meant to scare him off or p**s him off.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 04:27
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Dirtdog,

Please emigrate to South Africa, we need guys like you to screw with our civil servants who supply very little to poor service.

They could do with your superior knowledge and attitude.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 09:16
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I served in the military. Guess I need to start talking down more to people that offer me suggestions because I waited too long. Obviously everyone here is at fault and wrong for offering help...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 09:41
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Check your fire!

Stated as having 30 years of service, can't take a responsible and well-intentioned recommendation: gotta be an officer, probably Navy.

As said above, thanks, dirty dog, for your service, and I'll leave it at that.

I would have, had you stuck around a day or 2 more, suggested you look for a used Swaro 3-9 AV with muzzleloader reticle, I have that scope, works great for muzzle or 300Balckout, and can be found at a good price when you can find one.

I served too, as did many regulars here, some serve still.  We shall mourn your passing, but only a little.

Carry on.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 12:54
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Whenever someone refers to their Deer Rifle as a WEAPON I generally take cover behind something large---like a MOUNTAIN!   Shocked
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 13:20
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Check your fire!

Stated as having 30 years of service, can't take a responsible and well-intentioned recommendation: gotta be an officer, probably Navy.

As said above, thanks, dirty dog, for your service, and I'll leave it at that.

I would have, had you stuck around a day or 2 more, suggested you look for a used Swaro 3-9 AV with muzzleloader reticle, I have that scope, works great for muzzle or 300Balckout, and can be found at a good price when you can find one.

I served too, as did many regulars here, some serve still.  We shall mourn your passing, but only a little.

Carry on.

He isn't a squid! a top ram in the goat locker would have thicker skin.  Airedale deck jockey more likely!


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 19:49
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S**t, I miss dirtdog already!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 20:15
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OOPS  I missed out on the fun. Dirtdog 1962 please be advised that you are not the only one here who has stood in harms way.
 http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P50716.aspx
Stock # - SS39X42MQ
I have spent a tremendous amount of time with muzzleloaders and to accurately do so one must spend a lot of time on the range with the firearm in question working on what load one uses.  I prefer the Barnes copper sabots in 250gr for 50 cal muskets.  I also use loose powder and while I understant that one can drop four pellets down the bore one can also drop 200 grains of measured powder down the bore of your new rifle or for my rifle a max of 150 grains.  What I have found however is that each of the muskets I have owned really shot best with different powder charges.  One really liked the 150 grain load but several have not shot consistently with more than 120 grains of tripple 7 and even pyrodex or true blackpowder or buckhorn all burn a tad different.
One thing that is an absolute if one is to have consistent accuracy with a musket is that you must clean the bore after each shot using a wet patch then a dry patch because failure to do so allows a carbon build up and causes a difference in seating depth and a consequent change in powder burn which significantly effects accuracy.   If you understood what Peddler was telling you it would not have upset you.  Having the ability to alter the powder charge is a valuable tool in obtaining the most accurate load for your specific rifle.  Regarding the scope choices I have two thoughts - first just because you can load 200 grains does not mean that you must do so and if the scope you chose had a BDC reticle set for a 150 grain powder charge with a 250 gr sabbot then you could very quickly and easily drop that BDC scope onto that rifle and use the 150 gr charge.  I realize that you bought the rifle specifically because you considered the 200 grain charge to be superior however -- last minute you do not have a lot of time to spend on the range dialing in a load and figuring trajectory at known distances and using tactical knobs to dial in correction like a designated marksman would do with a tactical scope.   I do like the SS 3-9 tactical scope



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - December/04/2014 at 20:28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 20:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2014 at 20:21
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large-bodied bucks where we  are typically 18 inches deep in the chest, mid size 16 in Elk probably 24
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  • Correcting for Bullet Drop
  • Correcting for Wind Drift
  • Correcting for Uphill/Downhill
  • Correcting Correction to Mil (holdover)
  • Correcting Correction to MOA (sight adjustment)
$29.95


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - December/04/2014 at 20:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2014 at 18:11
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Dirtdog, go eat some meat and grow a thicker skin. Someone tried to give you good advice as too how to make a good product better. 
Peddler I only shoot a smokeless ML now, have three. Yes you are right about the loose powder being better but I do not think Remington is recommending 209 powder for their new 700ML, something to do with the breech plug. 
I have come to this board many times for advice and want to thank all you guys for your advice. We can all learn something from each other most of the time.
I do not know what Dirtdog problem was/is, but what was said above was true, you will be missed but not for long.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2014 at 01:25
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I must not be in the muzzleloader community either cause I only owned one ML and it was a Knight Disc Extreme. Putting me further out of the community, I guess, would have been almost my exclusive use of Hodgdon pellets, mostly Pyrodex and some 777. I got fantastic accuracy with 3 (50 gr.) Pyrodex pellets behind 250 gr Barnes Expanders and they dropped deer like a bolt from the blue with their huge hollow point.

Anyway, my land area in NYS went from shotgun/muzzleloader only to rifle several years ago so the Knight went down the road. I can't speak about the "long range use" of muzzleloaders on deer and the biggest whitetail I ever shot on the property probably was 25 yrds away. I had a Leupold "shorty" 1.75-6x32 on that rifle with Leupold detachable QR rings and bases.






Edited by Roy Finn - December/06/2014 at 10:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2014 at 08:33
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

I must not be in the muzzleloader community either cause I only owned one ML and it was a Knight Disc Extreme. Putting me further out of the community, I guess, would have been almost my exclusive use of Hodgdon pellets, mostly Pyrodex and some 777. I got fantastic accuracy with 3 (50 gr.) Pyrodex pellets behind 250 gr Barnes Expanders and they dropped deer like a bolt from the blue with their huge hollow point.

Anyway, my land area in NYS went from shotgun/muzzleloader only to rifle several years ago so the Knight went down the road. I can't speak about the "long range use" of muzzleloaders on deer and the biggest whitetail I ever shot on the property probably was 25 yrds away. I had a Leupold "shorty" 1.75-6x32 on that rifle with Leupold detachable QR rings and bases.




I think Jeff nailed it... He must have been an orficer Wink.    He asked for advise when he already had his mind made up then lambasted poor Skip when he sincerely offered what he thought was good advice.  Secondly he obviously ain't much on guns and is stuck in the more is better mentality.  Well I hope he doesn't blow himself up with the new smoke pole but the A-hole's shoulder really needs to hurt like hell........
 
wish him, the best.... I have a co-worker like him now.  Asks you a question just so he can tell you your wrong....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2014 at 10:14
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I know my Knight 50 cal ML wasn't much fun to shoot with 3- 50grn pellets or a 120 grns of loose 777, so I'd have to guess that a 200 grn charge must really kick the schitt out of you. My Knight wasn't all that light weight either and the recoil pad left a little to be desired. It felt like it recoiled as much as my 300 WM and I got brushed more than once by the scope. Anyways, I don't know of any company offering a BDC type reticle for his ML set-up.........not yet anyway. One option might be that you could have a custom BDC type reticle made up for you through Leupold's Custom Shop if you send them the ballistics of the load you come up with. I seem to remember reading something to the effect of them making custom reticles, but I don't know what the cost involved would be.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2014 at 10:20
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yeah in a week so he can use it untested for an "ethical shot"  Loco
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