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Scope/Rifle Problem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2007 at 16:55
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Optics GrassHopper
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Joined: November/28/2007
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I have a Winchester model 70 shadow 270 WSM with a Burris 4-16x44 Sig. Select,  LRS Ballistic Plex reticle.  I got this combination brand new about a year and half ago.  I sighted it in on a bench with a gun-sled/vice.  After getting it pretty close 3 shots would be in a tight group at 100 yards and the next shot was 9" high.  Next few shots might be pretty good and then I would have 2 shots be way off.  I have battled it ever since.  Went antelope hunting this fall and shot it before the trip.  I ended up having to re-sight it in.  Same thing:  way off at the beginning, get it dialed in, seems fine, I'll have 3 shots in a tight group and the next couple of shots will be way off.  This fall before deer season I shot it to make sure it was still on after the antelope trip:  1st shot was a foot high, next shot 10" high....so once again re-sight it in and eventually get a nice tight 3 shot pattern right around the bulls-eye.  Then the next shots will be off again...broken record.  I am losing confidence in this gun/scope combination.  I have clean the barrel every few rounds, I am not letting the barrel heat up, I am using a weighted gun vice, I feel like I am squeezing the trigger and not jerking or flinching...
 
Can anyone help me?  Any advice would greatly be appreciated.  One guy told me he thought it sounded like I needed to have the gun re-bedded.  Are NEW Win. model 70's this inconsistent as far as having defective barrels or needing to have the action re-bedded even though they are brand new?  Or does this sound more like a scope problem?  I had the gun dealer I bought the gun from mount and bore-sight the scope.  The mounts and rings are tight and to the eye look fine.   I realize the gun is not a top of the line gun, has anyone else had problems with these cheaper cookie-cutter rifles, such as Winchester, Remingtion, etc.   
 
After saying all this, what factory rifle company would anyone suggest  to replace this.  I am leaning towards a Wthby Vanguard.  Would a Weatherby Vanguard be more apt to be consistantly accurate out of the box?    
 
Sorry for being long winded, this is just really frustrating!
 
Thanks for any advice or feedback.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2007 at 17:01
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Is the barrel supposed to be floated? If so is it? What kind of rings and bases? Does the gun always string high? Have you tried another scope to make sure its not optics? Could be a lot of things but the scope or mounts is a possibility.

  Focus


Edited by Focus - November/28/2007 at 17:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2007 at 17:09
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Optics GrassHopper
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Standard out of box Model 70 Winchester Shadow $450.  I Don't know if their barrels are suppose to float? I assume so.  Leupold dove tail bases, Burris rings.  String high??? I have not tried a new scope yet.  I should though. 
 
Thanks
 
I am wondering how often a factory rifle has a defective barrel or needs to be re-bedded when new?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2007 at 17:35
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You need to make sure the barrel is free floating would be my first step, then I would look into the rings, bases and scope (Most Likely Causes).
 
I highly doubt it is in need of re-bedding....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2007 at 17:46
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Before I did anything else to the rifle, I would do exactly as Focus suggested and try a different scope, assuming your scope mounts are tight.  Otherwise, you could end up chasing a phantom when it could be a defective scope all along.  The large dispersion of the fliers from the group suggests a scope or mount problem to me, as usually a bedding problem wouldn't cause fliers that far out of the group at 100 yards.  What Focus is referring to as "stringing high" is that shots impact in a vertical pattern so that a typical group is much wider in the vertical, rather than being close to the same width both horizontally and vertically as it should be. 



Edited by RifleDude - November/28/2007 at 17:47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2007 at 17:59
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I'm sorry I don't know much about the winchesters, don't know if they are supposed to be floated or not. Try to run a dollar bill down the barrel on the underside and see if it will slide to the action front. That will at least tell us if its floated. I hate to badmouth any scope maker but I'm real negative about burris and don't care for their scopes much, switch it out with anything you can get your hands on.....borrow one if possible, just trying to eliminate the scope as the culprit. Wish I knew more about your rifle....wonder if any of the mount screws if too long go thru and contact the barrel or bolt maybe. Maybe someone with direct experience with your rifle will post up, its probably not the bedding, it sure sounds like the scope or mounts or a barrel heating and pressing against something....than moving back as it cools.

    

   Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 10:21
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Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks for all the suggestion and help, greatly appreciated!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 10:25
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Optics GrassHopper
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Yes it is "stringing high".  The horizontal (right to left) is mostly real close, meaning all of my adjustments are usually just vertical. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 11:02
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I suffered with cheap rifles too long and finally decided to spend what it took to get one that really shot well. http://www.gaprecision.net/
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 19:42
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 Loose action screws can cause vertical stringing, but probably not 9 inches of it.  May be worth checking them. ( Front screw-tight, rear screw-fairly tight, middle screw-just snug.)
  Make sure that they are pulling the barreled action down firmly into the stock, and not bottoming out or something.
I'm leaning toward loose bases, or a bad scope. Sure wish I could drive up there to help you out, but I have to help Cheaptrick move this weekend! (Okay, I'm lying about that....)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 20:13
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Optics Apprentice
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When you are shooting the gun in the vise,How do you hold the gun? By the stock? Or by the barrell? I seen a guy at the range trying to sight a new sako in and could not get it to group at 50 yards,So I stood over his shoulder. First thing I saw he had his hand on the barrell pulling the gun down tight in the vise. You cant do that. If you are not doing that,then I would check the scope. also check the tightest of the bolts in the mounts. easy way to see if the scope is moveing. take a white crayon mark both sides of the scope in each ring mount,shoot the gun a few times then see if the marks have moved. old school stuff but it works
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