New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Scope Reticle Question
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Scope Reticle Question

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2009 at 22:45
Cuz-Pat View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/04/2007
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 21

In scopes that have the reticle in the 1st focal plane, I know, that the reticle increases in size as the magnification is increased. Scopes with the reticle in the 2nd focal plane, I know, does not increase the size of the reticle as the magnification is increased.

My question's are these: What are the advantages of having a 1st plane reticle? Why would you or would you not want your reticle to change in size? What is the advantages or disadvantages to having a reticle in the 2nd focal plane, that never increases in size?
 
I'm just not clear on why you would want one over the other. Hope someone can help.
 
Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2009 at 00:36
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13877
As you probably know when you adjust a variable scope from lowest to highest power the width of the field of view changes quite a bit.  Wide at low power and narrow field of veiw at higher power.   Many balistic reticles are on scopes that are second focal plane reticles and as a resut the hold over marks only work  correctly at one power setting usually the higest power.   So what happens when it starts to get dark and you have to dial down the power to about 6x to make the scope appear brighter because a 42mm objective divided by 6 power gives a 7mm exit eye pupil which is bright.   With a first focal plane scope  you can use the mil dots for known hold over marks at any power.  With a first focal plane scope you can use mil dots to range find objects of known size at any power.   You also find that scopes that come in first focal plane often offer target knob adjustnemts in 1/10 mil clicks.   See p 12  & 13

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - January/01/2010 at 23:34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2009 at 05:59
kokan View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/24/2009
Location: SZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1

Hi! I have a 6-25x56 DL, I don't know why when I turn the power to 25, the target is not clear, however it becomes clear when I turn it to 22 or smaller.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2009 at 06:28
diggler1833 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/13/2009
Location: Jax, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 93
Wherever that chart came from it is off by just a bit.  1 Mil = 3.6" @ 100yds, and 1 MOA = 1.047" @ 100yds (it's actually carried past that decimal point, but most people stop at the thousandth of an inch mark).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2009 at 06:33
diggler1833 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/13/2009
Location: Jax, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 93
If you are hunting, or doing any other kind of practice where you range or hold-over with your reticle it is an advantage to have a FFP scope.  You take out the chance of not having your scope set at the right power to mil/MOA correctly, therefore increasing your chances to dope correctly.  SFP only becomes a bit more handy (to me) when shooting at known distance bullseye targets, since the reticle will be less thick at higher magnification making it easier to center in the x-ring. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2009 at 08:28
Cuz-Pat View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/04/2007
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 21
I am about to purchase a new scope for a deer rifle that I just picked up last Friday. Both scopes that I am interested in have 1st focal plane reticles. I don't target shoot. I just hunt. Neither scope will have a BDC reticle. Both will have a "plex" type reticle.
 
Now, help me to understand why either of these scopes with the 1st plane reticle will or will not be an advantage to me from a purely hunting perspective.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2009 at 08:32
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
one thing i can think of right off the top of my head is that if you have to take longer shots turning the power up on a ffp will increase the size of the reticle, which could completely cover your target, but you would be looking at a long shot to do that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2009 at 11:36
diggler1833 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/13/2009
Location: Jax, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 93
Yeah, I'm not really much of a fan of a FFP on a plex reticle.  You could use the joint of the thin crosshair to the thick lines of the reticle as an aiming reference, but it is not really precise enough to be worthwhile.
 
FFP on a plex isn't going to hurt either, unless, as stated above the reticle gets so thick that it covers up the target.  But for deer hunting, especially in low light a thicker reticle may come in as an advantage.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2009 at 16:20
Jon A View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: March/14/2008
Location: Everett, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 660
I agree, with a plex it isn't going to matter much either way, depending upon their thicknesses.  A couple possible differences:

Some European scope fans prefer the look of FFP reticles even when not using them for holdovers, etc.  They tend to stay black with lots of contrast which can make them easier to see in low light than a similar design in SFP.  Of course there are many SFP scopes that are pretty good at this as well.  Others feel FFP just "looks right" to them (a SFP scope's reticle is similar to looking through a FFP scope backward).  Of course that's being pretty picky.

For a variable, there's no chance of POI change throughout the power range with a FFP since the reticle is already part of the image by the time it gets back that far.  Of course, any quality SFP scope shouldn't have a significant shift either but it gives some a warm fuzzy knowing it can't happen.

That's about all I can think of for a plex reticle.  It's not going to matter a whole lot if you're not using the reticle for holding over, ranging things, etc.  How visible the reticle is in various conditions depends on many design factors and could be good or bad with either depending upon those factors.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2010 at 20:15
optic novice View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: November/07/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Hello,

I am new to this forum and I was reading this topic and I am also interested in a 1st focal plane scope and I was wondering what scopes are you looking at and if I could ask what are the prices?  I also dont want a BDC reticle.             Thanks for you time
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2010 at 23:28
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4614
Unless the reticle allows ranging, e.g. mil-dot or similar, I can't see any reason why it would be good to have an FFP scope over a good quality SFP scope. I have both types. If you do go with a scope that has a ranging reticle, then you can range at any magnification. However, at low magnification or in low light it will become difficult to see the divisions within the reticle. At that point, it becomes more like using a duplex reticle. In fact, some manufacturers, such as Premier, only illuminate the center of the reticle because there is not much chance of ranging in those conditions.

Consider also the magnification range. For instance, I own an SFP scope with mil-dot reticle that tops out at 10X, which is its ranging power. I've never found reason to range with it at lower magnification for what I use it for, which is big game hunting. (And please consider that such a use is really not valid past 400 yards, given size variations in animals). If you go with a scope that has its ranging power on 22X you'd only be able to range at lower magnifications if you're willing to do the extra math unless you go FFP.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2010 at 09:55
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
ffp scopes have their best use, when shooting movers or if there are more people involved in the shot. As noted with a plex the shooter looses the advantage of any system. If shooting movers the lead stay the same at any power. If your using a spotter for corrections then both of you need the same system which means no changes at any magnification.
to a large extent ffp are over rated; and the arguement usually comes up under their preceived ranging advantages.
how many ffp users really range at low magnifications, and have usable fractional reticles elements -- when using the lower powers the need for ranging is usually not there.
when need at long range, precision takes over and ranges are done on high power with both ffp and sfp, and if the need for speed is present the power can be dialed back.
as Jon mentioned the current problem is getting the reticle design and scaling to the magnification in ffp scopes, and only when this gets done will I be switching over completely to ffps.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2010 at 12:36
Jettubby View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/26/2009
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 39
Nothing that hasn't been said here but just another take on FFP vs SFP:  http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/?p=5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2010 at 12:54
Jettubby View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/26/2009
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 39
Here's a FFP scope at 4x:
 
 
........ and at 14X
 
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Scope Reticle Question"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Ranging Reticle on a cranking scope, Why? sakomato Rifle Scopes 8
Scope reticle with numerical indicators? brightstar Tactical Scopes 4
Reticle size of burris 3X prism scope vs vortex 3X wingmaster Tactical Scopes 0
Question about Nightforce reticles t0lik Rifle Scopes 1 10/26/2004 12:48:20 PM
IOR illuminated reticle question. bluetentacle Tactical Scopes 3 1/9/2006 3:05:56 PM
I.O.R. Valdada Reticle Question... Black Squirrel Tactical Scopes 12 8/4/2006 11:47:38 AM
SS mil-dot reticle question .308 Tactical Scopes 4 6/9/2006 4:05:19 PM
Zeiss Reticle #42 Question noddah Rifle Scopes 1 12/3/2006 10:53:40 PM
Nikon BDC reticle question koshkin Rifle Scopes 34 3/29/2007 2:30:40 AM
Reticle Replacement Question OMCHamlin Rimfire / Airgun 1 4/29/2007 12:34:22 PM


This page was generated in 0.344 seconds.