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Scope Problem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 10:25
bkondeff View Drop Down
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I recently purchased a new Zeiss Consquest 6.5x20 for a Sako 75 7mm Rem Mag I just purchased. I have taken it out 3 times doing load development. I tried 4 different powders and found RL19 shot 8 consecutive 3 shot groups between .3 and .6. I went back out yesterday with the same loads, using the exact same components. My fouling shots shot under an inch and my first group went to .7. What is intersting is that all my groups seemed to have the same pattern, where the first and third where in the same hole and the second was a little right. So on my second group yesterday my third shot goes about 1.5" high, and at 20x mag I didn't notice any flinch but thought it might be me so I put a fourth into that group, now it wen 2" right. Well I shot two more groups and they were 2"-3.5" with no distinct pattern.

I checked the mounts and rings but everything seemed tight. I assume if the scope slipped in the rings that my point of impact would change but that it wouldn't necessarily spray randomly. I didn't notice anything loose on the scope, nothing seems to be moving around.

The only thing I could deduce is that I did just purchase some new boxes of bullets, I shoot 160 gr Accubonds, and that maybe they are bad. I had noted that my first 6 reloads of the day were of the old lot, and they went into the fouling shots(4) and the first group. I don't think it was that.

I've never encountered a problem like this as I'm new to this level of load development and accuracy. Can some of you with more experience give me an idea of what you think may be the problem and some advice on how to isolate what the problem is.

I thought I might try to put another scope on this gun. All I have available is a Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9, but that should probably work.

I really really like this scope. I had checked the tracking and it seemed spot on.

Please advise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 10:54
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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I would put the 3-9 on before trying to decide what other problems might be present. It is more likely that a problem exists with a scope than a bad box of Nosler's, IMO.
 
Roy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 10:57
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
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That sounds like the simplest thing to check first.  Change the scope,  check all screws for tightness, and go try it all again.  Use the same lot of ammunition for the whole test.    --Ed
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 11:17
8shots View Drop Down
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Well well, my old friend Mr Nossler. Throw the bullets out and try something different. I place my bet on the bullets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 11:27
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I would change the scope first, and don't forget to check the action screws for tightness also. I've not heard of the conquests having a problem, but mistakes do happen. If there is a problem with the scope I'm sure Zeiss will take care of it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 11:39
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I bought one box of factory Noslers once and that will be the only box of them I ever buy for that gun.  It was all over the place, I could not keep a 4 inch group at 100 yards.  I loaded up some handloads I had made and my groups went back to normal.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 11:56
8shots View Drop Down
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Originally posted by supertoot73 supertoot73 wrote:

I bought one box of factory Noslers once and that will be the only box of them I ever buy for that gun.  It was all over the place, I could not keep a 4 inch group at 100 yards.  I loaded up some handloads I had made and my groups went back to normal.  
 
I was stupid enough to buy two boxes!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 12:21
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So WHY do you think it is the scope? You are having a repeatable problem.  That sounds more like the barrel heating up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 12:48
8shots View Drop Down
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Try finding  a few (or buy some Sierra Matchking) or some other target brand bullets. Load this up and see if the problem persists.
You will have to start some where to elimanate the variables, which can be scope, bullets/load, rifle, shooter.
If it is easy enough, put a scope on that you know and can trust. If it still shoots all over, check the rifle for loose screws, the scope mounts etc. Wait 1 min between each shot to allow the barrel to cool down. If it still shoots all over the show, up the game. Change bullets to Hornady, Sierra or so. Not Nossler as this could be the problem. If the problem still persists, replace the barrel, the stock, the trigger and put a new scope on. You should be good to go after thatWink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 13:11
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Fellas, bkondeff was using Accubonds, not Partitions.  While different rifles have different bullet preferences, overall, the AB has a great reputation for accuracy, unlike the Partition, which isn't known to be a superbly accurate bullet.  If a given rifle shoots well with bullets of similar design, such as Ballistic Tips, Sciroccos, SSTs, Interbonds, etc., then it most likely will shoot with an AB of the same weight.

 
8, your rifle simply didn't like the Partitions, nothing more, nothing less.  If I had been you, I would have ditched the Partitions too, but the issue had to do with the bullet design you were attempting to use that your rifle didn't like, not a brand issue.  There are almost no bullets that universally shoot well in every rifle they're shot out of.
 
bkondeff,
If the same load shot well in the past, then either you didn't shoot enough groups to get a representative sampling (Other than to verify your zero, I don't place much value in 3-shot groups for evaluating loads, BTW) or something has changed with your rifle.  It could very well be the scope, and that's a quick and easy thing to verify if you have another scope of known performance.  As 8shots said, I would also check to make certain your mounts and action screws aren't loose.  You could also have a bedding problem.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 13:18
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I was shooting accubonds as well, mine gun just did not like them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 13:32
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This sounds just like the  6.5-20x50 Zeiss conquest I bought last August.It fell apart internally after the first trip. then after it was returned from Zeiss putting it back together. It would not put two shots together. It was only on a .223. No heavy recoil. I hope you have better luck with your scope. Mine has been a real lemon. I have always liked Zeiss but I bought a very expensive lemon this time and they have not been able to make it right. I guess when it comes back I will just have to take a licking and dump it on Ebay.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 17:25
bkondeff View Drop Down
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Thanks for all the input.
 
I will put the other scope on and use the same exact load I had the problem with first.
 
I have been pretty good about giving my barrel time to cool.  I usually wait at least one minute after the first cold barrel shot, then at least 3 mintutes before the third.  I typically put my rifle in the shade with the action open and clip removed while I walk out to measure groups so I don't think it's a heated barrel but if it is this test will show in the first few groups.
 
I will check the action screws.
 
Anyone who is trying to sell that Nosler bullet are worthles, is wrong.  Nosler couldn't build their reputation without a reasonable amount of very happy folks.  There marketing machine isn't that strong.  I doubt I shot 8 groups in a row well under moa with these bullets if the brand is bad.  Now his production run may some imbalance due to the core os something, but I doubt that also. 
 
I really hope I can make this scope work though as I really fell in love with it fast. 
 
Someone mentioned they thought the patterning seemed like a barrel and not a scope.  If a scope breaks loose inside is there a typical pattern to it? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 17:28
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 My ... My ... that post by 3_ tens  should quiet down the Zeiss worshippers on here ... Light%20It%20Up

Edited by mercenary1947 - May/04/2008 at 18:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2008 at 17:30
supertool73 View Drop Down
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I didn't say that the Nosler's were worthless, I just said they did not work in my particular rifle.  Every rifle is different.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2008 at 02:36
8shots View Drop Down
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Originally posted by supertoot73 supertoot73 wrote:

I didn't say that the Nosler's were worthless, I just said they did not work in my particular rifle.  Every rifle is different.
 
Neither did I say they were worthless. I said they were absolute cr&p.
 
(Now the Nossler fans know how the Leupold fans feel  Stiring%20The%20Pot  )


Edited by 8shots - May/05/2008 at 02:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2008 at 07:48
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Not the scope nor the round. I believe it's harmonics. Try cleaning for each round and then, letting the barrel cool between rounds. Then shoot five shot groups without cooling and see if there is some walking. 
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