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Scope problem or rifle problem? |
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Posted: September/24/2008 at 08:19 |
Okay guys, I have a bit of a conundrum....
Two years ago I got a dpms LR308 and topped it with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40. I got everything set up on it and zeroed it in at 100 yds. With hunting with it and miss a deer broadside at 150 yards twice. Angry, I went back to the range to see what happened. It was now shooting 16" high at 100 yards. (Same bullets, same range) While shooting to rezero, the windage wire on the top of the reticle broke. So, I went and bought a VX-3 3-9x40. Zeroed that guy, killed 5 deer with it last season, cleaned the gun, and put it in the safe until last weekend. Went hunting with it this weekend missed a deer at 241 yards (i bought a rangefinder too =-) ) 4 friggin times. Again back to the range, and it's shooting 18" high at 100yds. I haven't touched or shot the rifle, it's been just sitting in the safe. I didn't rezero the thing because I don't want to break another scope. Is there something about an automatic rifle that I don't know about that would cause me to need a different scope? Can I rezero the rifle? I don't think just cleaning the rifle would throw it off by 18". Any ideas/suggestions?
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If you give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day, but if you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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That's a strange situation there. Anybody else have access to your safe? I would be suspect that someone is fooling around with your stuff. Fact is a zero will not change without some sign that there is a problem, stringing during your firing sessions etc. It certainly will not happen that way with two different scopes. Verify that the monts and all are tight, the scope isn't slipping etc. Then bore sight the rifle, and count your clicks to range zero. Make notes and check it periodically. I get the impression that someone you trust to have access doesn't enjoy your range and hunting time, or the venison. Just a thought.
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An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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300S&W
Optics God Joined: January/27/2008 Location: Burlington,WV Status: Offline Points: 10592 |
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I'm not at all familiar with that firearm but is possible that the way the scope is mounted is putting stress on the scope tube and it just takes time to do the damage that would affect your scopes zero? Just wondering.
til later
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trigger29
Optics Master Extraordinaire X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ? Joined: September/29/2007 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 4353 |
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Windage Wire on top of the reticle broke? I thought Conquests used etched reticles? Or maybe I misunderstand the statement. Either way something seems off. This is an unusual problem.
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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That would be my guess. Are you sure the rings are square with each other?? Is one ring a different height than the other? |
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Well, it definitely wasn't an etched reticle, because the wire (if that's what it was) definitely broke. One shot it kicked off at the cross, the next shot, fell completely off. The rifle has a picatinny rail built into the receiver. The scope is in a set of steel weaver one inch rings. I will measure them to see if they are the same height, but if they're different it would be a huge surprise to me. Here's a pic of it. Sorry about the scope cover, I will get a different picture tomorrow when I get back home.
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If you give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day, but if you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Mike McDonald
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/01/2004 Status: Offline Points: 739 |
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1. pull the float tube, check the barrel nut to confirm it's torqued to spec. Armalites are bad about loose barrels, no reason DPMS wouldn't have some issues too.
2. buy an eched reticle scope.
3. understand AR type 30 calgas guns are evil and it's quite possible to induce many inches of shooter error if you hold them incorrectly. they ain't bolt rifles.
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Will an etched reticle scope really make a difference? I want a new scope anyhow as the leupy was going to be on there just until I got the zeiss back, but then I put the zeiss on a wby 223 I got from my brother. I just don't want to make the mistake of buying one and just having the same problem that I have now. I don't see any reason that an automatic would be harder on a scope than, say, my 300 rum which kicks like a mule named bruce lee. I don't think that I am holding it incorrectly (not saying that I am holding it right either) because when I zeroed it I had a .75" group (168gr FGMM). I will check that barrel nut though.
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If you give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day, but if you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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The barrel nut checks good. I took the chance of rezeroing the rifle and now the groups have really opened up. The general consensus that I am getting by asking around is that I really need a heavy duty scope and rings. Perhaps the bolt of the automatic is just too much motion and shock for anything less. Anybody got a good suggestion for a HEAVY DUTY scope? I don't necessarily need the most "tacticool" scope, just a scope that wont break after I put a box of bullets through the gun. I've got some other feelers out for suggestions but was curious as to what you guys would suggest.
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If you give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day, but if you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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An auto is harder on a scope because the recoil is going two ways. It
goes back when the round goes off and it recoils forward when the bolt
slams home.
Automatic rifles will tear a lesser scope up. But that being said a Leupold or Zeiss should be up to the task. If I were you I would buy some good rings. Weaver rings suck, plain and simple. They could easily be getting knocked out of alignment. Invest some money into some good ones. Preferably actual picatinny style over weaver style. They will fit tighter to the rail and be more precise. Get some Warne rings, Burris Xtreme tactical(weaver style but still good), IOR, Badger, Seekings, TPS. Something that is of good quality. Good rings are as important or more so as the scope and having lesser quality ones is always a risk. Nice looking rifle by the way, how you get it working better. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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Byrd
Optics GrassHopper Joined: December/06/2008 Location: s.c. Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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I like the Burris Signature rings, they are tough, steel, fine quality, have a plastic ball type insert to grasp the scope, alighn to not cause stress on tube and hold it firmly without damage. You can get off set inserts to help misalighnment of mounting rail if needed. Come in turn in, quick detach, Ruger77, rimfire and weaver mounting. I buy from www.midsouthshooters.com, nice folks, good prices.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5473
you need to read this i think
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
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Byrd
Optics GrassHopper Joined: December/06/2008 Location: s.c. Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Thanks, a slip.
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tinytim
Optics GrassHopper Troll Joined: January/06/2009 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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The regular Weaver rings are not really "flattop friendly" as the built in lattop rail is not really dimensioned the same as a Weaver base. I would suggest Warne QD ultra high rings as they are specifically configured for a AR flattop. Three flattops with them and no issues. They even come on and off and stay within 1 MOA.
http://www.swfa.com/showcategory.aspx?categoryid=1748&sb=Name&so=asc&page=2 |
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bagderRed
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/17/2004 Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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Wait a minute here, like trigger said, the Zeiss has an etched reticle. One of the big things Zeiss advertises.... But anyways like other posters have said I too would say the mounts are the culprit.
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22268 |
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This thought crossed my mind (short trip) overthe weekend. Could it be possible that you are not getting the same cheek weld or stock weld between your sight ins? If your eye is not in the same place behind the eye piece of your scope and you do not have an adjustable objective to adjust the parallax this could effect the point of impact. While 16" and 18" is a big difference in point of impact. The time you had between sight ins, you may not have had the same weld on your rifle. You may have a consistant weld while you are sighting in at one session but have a different and consistant weld at another session (are you seeing any shadow in the scope?) . This will cause a shift in the point of impact of your round but still have consistant groups.
Just a thought.
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