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Scope problem or rifle problem?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2008 at 08:19
flyspy1 View Drop Down
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Okay guys, I have a bit of a conundrum....
 
Two years ago I got a dpms LR308 and topped it with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40.  I got everything set up on it and zeroed it in at 100 yds.  With hunting with it and miss a deer broadside at 150 yards twice.  Angry, I went back to the range to see what happened.  It was now shooting 16" high at 100 yards. (Same bullets, same range)  While shooting to rezero, the windage wire on the top of the reticle broke.  So, I went and bought a VX-3 3-9x40.  Zeroed that guy, killed 5 deer with it last season, cleaned the gun, and put it in the safe until last weekend.  Went hunting with it this weekend missed a deer at 241 yards (i bought a rangefinder too =-) ) 4 friggin times.  Again back to the range, and it's shooting 18" high at 100yds.  I haven't touched or shot the rifle, it's been just sitting in the safe.  I didn't rezero the thing because I don't want to break another scope.  Is there something about an automatic rifle that I don't know about that would cause me to need a different scope?  Can I rezero the rifle? I don't think just cleaning the rifle would throw it off by 18".  Any ideas/suggestions?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2008 at 09:11
cyborg View Drop Down
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That's a strange situation there. Anybody else have access to your safe? I would be suspect that someone is fooling around with your stuff. Fact is a zero will not change without some sign that there is a problem, stringing during your firing sessions etc. It certainly will not happen that way with two different scopes. Verify that the monts and all are tight, the scope isn't slipping etc. Then bore sight the rifle, and count your clicks to range zero. Make notes and check it periodically. I get the impression that someone you trust to have access doesn't enjoy your range and hunting time, or the venison. Just a thought.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2008 at 09:58
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 I'm not at all familiar with that firearm but is possible that the way the scope is mounted  is  putting stress on the scope tube and it just takes time to do the damage that would affect your scopes zero?  Just wondering.
 
til later
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2008 at 11:03
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Windage Wire on top of the reticle broke? I thought Conquests used etched reticles? Or maybe I misunderstand the statement. Either way something seems off. This is an unusual problem.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2008 at 11:37
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Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

 I'm not at all familiar with that firearm but is possible that the way the scope is mounted  is  putting stress on the scope tube and it just takes time to do the damage that would affect your scopes zero?  Just wondering.
 
til later


That would be my guess.  Are you sure the rings are square with each other??  Is one ring a different height than the other?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2008 at 16:23
flyspy1 View Drop Down
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Well, it definitely wasn't an etched reticle, because the wire (if that's what it was) definitely broke.  One shot it kicked off at the cross, the next shot, fell completely off.  The rifle has a picatinny rail built into the receiver.  The scope is in a set of steel weaver one inch rings.  I will measure them to see if they are the same height, but if they're different it would be a huge surprise to me.  Here's a pic of it.  Sorry about the scope cover, I will get a different picture tomorrow when I get back home.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2008 at 18:21
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1.     pull the float tube, check the barrel nut to confirm it's torqued to spec.  Armalites are bad about loose barrels, no reason DPMS wouldn't have some issues too.
 
2.     buy an eched reticle scope.
 
3.     understand AR type 30 calgas guns are evil and it's quite possible to induce many inches of shooter error if you hold them incorrectly.  they ain't bolt rifles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2008 at 19:18
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Will an etched reticle scope really make a difference?  I want a new scope anyhow as the leupy was going to be on there just until I got the zeiss back, but then I put the zeiss on a wby 223 I got from my brother.  I just don't want to make the mistake of buying one and just having the same problem that I have now.  I don't see any reason that an automatic would be harder on a scope than, say, my 300 rum which kicks like a mule named bruce lee.  I don't think that I am holding it incorrectly (not saying that I am holding it right either) because when I zeroed it I had a .75" group (168gr FGMM).  I will check that barrel nut though. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2008 at 10:15
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The barrel nut checks good.  I took the chance of rezeroing the rifle and now the groups have really opened up.  The general consensus that I am getting by asking around is that I really need a heavy duty scope and rings.  Perhaps the bolt of the automatic is just too much motion and shock for anything less.  Anybody got a good suggestion for a HEAVY DUTY scope?  I don't necessarily need the most "tacticool" scope, just a scope that wont break after I put a box of bullets through the gun.  I've got some other feelers out for suggestions but was curious as to what you guys would suggest.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2008 at 10:31
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An auto is harder on a scope because the recoil is going two ways.  It goes back when the round goes off and it recoils forward when the bolt slams home. 

Automatic rifles will tear a lesser scope up.  But that being said a Leupold or Zeiss should be up to the task. 

If I were you I would buy some good rings.  Weaver rings suck, plain and simple.  They could easily be getting knocked out of alignment.  Invest some money into some good ones.  Preferably actual picatinny style over weaver style.  They will fit tighter to the rail and be more precise.  Get some Warne rings, Burris Xtreme tactical(weaver style but still good), IOR, Badger, Seekings, TPS.  Something that is of good quality.  Good rings are as important or more so as the scope and having lesser quality ones is always a risk.

Nice looking rifle by the way, how you get it working better. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2008 at 20:20
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I like the Burris Signature rings, they are tough, steel, fine quality, have a plastic ball type insert to grasp the scope, alighn to not cause stress on tube and hold it firmly without damage. You can get off set inserts to help misalighnment of mounting rail if needed. Come in turn in, quick detach, Ruger77, rimfire and weaver mounting. I buy from www.midsouthshooters.com, nice folks, good prices.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2008 at 20:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2008 at 20:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2008 at 21:15
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Thanks, a slip.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2009 at 23:25
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The regular Weaver rings are not really "flattop friendly" as the built in lattop rail is not really dimensioned the same as a Weaver base. I would suggest Warne QD ultra high rings as they are specifically configured for a AR flattop. Three flattops with them and no issues. They even come on and off and stay within 1 MOA.
http://www.swfa.com/showcategory.aspx?categoryid=1748&sb=Name&so=asc&page=2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2009 at 08:04
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Wait a minute here, like trigger said, the Zeiss has an etched reticle.  One of the big things Zeiss advertises.... Down the ToiletBut anyways like other posters have said I too would say the mounts are the culprit. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2009 at 14:29
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This thought crossed my mind (short trip) overthe weekend. Could it be possible that you are not getting the same cheek weld or stock weld between your sight ins? If your eye is not in the same place behind the eye piece of your scope and you do not have an adjustable objective to adjust the parallax this could effect the point of impact. While 16" and 18" is a big difference in point of impact. The time you had between sight ins, you may not have had the same weld on your rifle. You may have a consistant weld while you are sighting in at one session but have a different and consistant weld at another session (are you seeing any shadow in the scope?) . This will cause a shift in the point of impact of your round but still have consistant groups.
Just a thought.
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