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Scope Mounted, Sight In issue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 19:00
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I finally got my Kahles KX 3X9X42 mounted on my TC Encore mounted with medium rings.  When I went to sight it in, I bore sighted it with a laser bore sighter and I have an issue.  I have turned the turret UP as far as it will go and it is still low.  What to do, what to do?  I have no clue.

skywalker
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 19:02
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What sort mount, what rings?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 19:51
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Skywalker, could you post a closeup pic showing your scope, mounts and receiver?  That might give us an idea of what the problem may be.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 20:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 21:57
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 I can't get the pic to come up, but just to make sure- you do understand that the crosshairs will appear to move DOWN when you turn the turret "UP", right? 
I see guys do this all the time- they boresight to a target or a laser beam and think that they are going to hit low when the crosshairs are below the beam, when in fact the opposite is true.
 Just double-checking...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 22:11
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So if I want to sight in 1" high at 100 yrds then I need the laser to be below the cross hair 1" with my laser?  Haven't used my laser bore sighter much at all, so still learning.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 22:12
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 I can't get the pic to come up, but just to make sure- you do understand that the crosshairs will appear to move DOWN when you turn the turret "UP", right? 
I see guys do this all the time- they boresight to a target or a laser beam and think that they are going to hit low when the crosshairs are below the beam, when in fact the opposite is true.
 Just double-checking...
Here it is...
At that angle I cannot tell, but is that objective lens cover touching the barrel???  Looks close...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 22:17
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Close, you can slide a dollar bill between them, a low ring will not work, thus I have a mid ring.  I did this, have my cross hair 1" above my laser dot.  I understand what Ronk was saying.  The laser is acting as bullseye and I am wanting to be 1" high, so my cross hair needs to be above, not below the laser.  Of course, I am literally sighting this in on Sat, just trying to get ahead a little tonight.

I think I got it now.   THANKS!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 22:42
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Originally posted by skywalker skywalker wrote:

Close, you can slide a dollar bill between them, a low ring will not work, thus I have a mid ring.  I did this, have my cross hair 1" above my laser dot.  I understand what Ronk was saying.  The laser is acting as bullseye and I am wanting to be 1" high, so my cross hair needs to be above, not below the laser.  Of course, I am literally sighting this in on Sat, just trying to get ahead a little tonight.

I think I got it now.   THANKS!
 
No, you have it wrong. You need to have the crosshairs BELOW the projected laser dot if you wish the bullet to HIT above the POINT of aim (target center) when you actually go to shoot the rifle.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 23:18
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Ron is right.  That laser beam is coming out of the barrel in a perfectly straight line, while the bullet will fly along a curved path (due to gravity pulling the bullet down).  Hence actual bullet impact will always be lower than the laser beam.  Either way, laser bore sighter is only useful to get the initial shot on paper.  Final sighting in can only be done at the range.  Sight the scope in an inch or two below the laser beam and go shoot it.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 03:44
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We still have not got to the real problem, your turret adjustment is maxed out????
That can indicate a problem with your mounts or rifle. You should be able to get your crosshair and laser beam to the exact same point at about 25 yds with plenty of play in your turret adjustments (both up and down).
If you have been using a very short distance say 1 yds, then this may account why you are maxed out.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 06:41
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Skywalker, as Koshkin mentioned, don't try to zero your scope with the boresighter; its only job is to get you on paper for final sight-in.  You cannot accurately establish how far above the point of aim you wish your sight-in to be during bore sighting, because there are too many variables affecting actual POI.

Remember, in order to move your POI on target UP, your reticle has to be moved DOWN.  If you turn the elevation knob toward the "up" direction and watch your reticle move, it is actually moving downward.  The same applies to your windage adjustment.  When you move the knob in either direction, the reticle is actually being compensated in the opposite direction than you would initially think. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 07:16
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All good advice to follow.  I always TRY to boresight at 100yds, but sometimes it is just not possible.  As 8shots said, 25yds is an acceptable distance, but I never try to do less than that.  I have a laser boresighter that says you can do 18yds, I tried it once and it was barely on paper at 100 with one of my 30-06's.  It is still of concern that you maxed your elevation adjustment.  Try the longer boresight range and give us some feedback, please.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 07:53
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I plan on paper sighting this weekend, hopefully.  I have the laser and the cross hair dead on as of now and cannot go 'down' on my turret adjustment anymore.......that is my real concern.  I have no issue with sighting a scope 'in', as I have done this many a time, but have never maxed out any turret adjustment before.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 08:17
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At what distance did you do your "laser sighting"?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 08:41
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It sounds like you may need to shim under the mount. I always make sure the scope is centered in the adjustments and make the mounts fit to this. This will leave all of your adjustments available for fine tune or turret adjustments if that's your game. I had a Burris mount (2 piece base) that needed .040 shims to get the scope tube to be lined up with the rings. The owner told me he could never keep the scope from sliding in the mounts, well he had it in a bow! It looks like you have a 1 piece base and this would make it simple to shim without mis-aligning the rings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 09:05
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I was in my basement which is 54 or 56 ft in length, so almost 20 yards.  However, I have done this before with no issues at all with a Nikon Monarch and a Nikon Prostaff scope.  Each time, I was within 3-4 inches at 100 yrds and it was very easy to 'dial in' to zero.

Do I need to take to a gun smith to install shims or do I need higher/lower rings?  I can take the lens caps off and maybe go to a low ring.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 09:14
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Firstly, you need to get the scope close to zero with the dials approx midrange in their adjustments, otherwise your visit to the range will be short!
Changing the rings will not change the situation. You need to shim. This need not mean a visit to the gunsmith though, depending on how handy you are.
Using an aluminium cooldrink can you should be able to cut shims and place it under the mount.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 11:28
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Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Using an aluminium cooldrink can you should be able to cut shims and place it under the mount.


Darn Wouter, you're almost as frugal as a tool and diemaker. Good tip, though.
Also, I would take a fine file and de-burr the edges of the aluminum after cutting to size.
Should you end up shimming here is some valuable advice http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=459


Edited by tahqua - October/07/2009 at 11:57
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 12:16
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After reading this topic, I'm crossing laser boresighter off my list of things to ever waste money on. Last time I mounted a scope I took out the bolt, put the rifle on the kitchen counter, aimed the bore at the peak of the neighbor's garage roof 40 yards away and centered the cross-hairs on it with just a few clicks. Worked like a charm. Of course, having a 20-MOA base didn't hurt either.

Seems if you know your load's velocity and BC, you can use JBM (or similar ballistics calc) to find out what the drop should be at whatever distance you're sighting on. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 12:20
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I have used a laser for years and it always gets me within 4 inches of my first shot.  I think the problems are almost always user related and not understanding how the scope works.  I always sight to 100 yards and center is perfectly with my crosshairs and have never had a problem.  After that it take 2 shots to zero and one more to verify and that is it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2009 at 12:39
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I have used the laser for two seasons with no issues at all.  This is the first time I have ever mounted a scope that maxed out before getting my desired results.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/08/2009 at 03:47
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I do not think the problem lies with the boresighter or the system used to zero, but with something being out of alignment, probably the rifle action to barrel.
 
I have a friend who had a similiar problem the other day. He also thought/hoped he could fix it on the range. 20 wasted bullets later he went home. Had to get the correct scope mounts and shim it correctly. Three rounds later he was dead nuts on target. Same pre range alignment system, but correctly aligned mounts.


Edited by 8shots - October/08/2009 at 03:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 21:15
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So would a new scope base help this?  I am not comfortable 'shimming' this on my own.

thanks for the help yall, I greatly appreciate it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 22:03
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Do yourself a favor and loosen the base screws enough to put a beer can tab under the back if you need to bring it higher or in the front if you need to lower it. Snug them up and bore sight again. When you find something that works put some blue locktite on the screws and snug them up good. If this seems too much for you, take it to a gunsmith! A one piece base setup is a snap as you cant put the rings out of alignment to each other by shimming. 

good luck!
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