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Scope for suppressed .44 mag rifle?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 01:16
Maric View Drop Down
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This one in particular:   

 

http://www.srtarms.com/7744.htm

 

I’m looking for a scope with rather odd ball qualities.  I’m getting the match barrel so the rifle should be accurate but I think I need a low power scope because 300 grain bullets at ~1000 fps should have the trajectory a little better than a shot put so I need the field of view that allows for sufficient holdover.  Most shots with it should be well within 100 yards, but it might be fun to try and lob some at 200 yards.  A bullet drop compensator, mil dot, or other hash marks on the reticle would be helpful with making holdovers more accurate, especially if the values did not change with changes in scope magnification on a variable power scope.  An illuminated reticle would be nice but of absolute importance. 

 

So far my best scope ideas are the Nikon 2-8x32 Monarch Riflescope with the BDC reticle or the Burris 1.75-5x32 Signature Safari Rifle Scope with the ballistic plex reticule.  Neither of which have illuminated reticles.   

 

Any comments on the above scopes or any better ideas? 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 03:13
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Originally posted by Maric Maric wrote:

This one in particular:   

 

http://www.srtarms.com/7744.htm

 

I’m looking for a scope with rather odd ball qualities.  I’m getting the match barrel so the rifle should be accurate but I think I need a low power scope because 300 grain bullets at ~1000 fps should have the trajectory a little better than a shot put so I need the field of view that allows for sufficient holdover.  Most shots with it should be well within 100 yards, but it might be fun to try and lob some at 200 yards.  A bullet drop compensator, mil dot, or other hash marks on the reticle would be helpful with making holdovers more accurate, especially if the values did not change with changes in scope magnification on a variable power scope.  An illuminated reticle would be nice but of absolute importance. 

 

So far my best scope ideas are the Nikon 2-8x32 Monarch Riflescope with the BDC reticle or the Burris 1.75-5x32 Signature Safari Rifle Scope with the ballistic plex reticule.  Neither of which have illuminated reticles.   

 

Any comments on the above scopes or any better ideas? 

...................................Neither one!............First off! Of the two above scopes, the 1.75-5x32 Burris Safari is much better designed for the much faster 338`s, 375`s. The 4 & 5x on the high end, is too much magnification for a 44 magnum rifle...... Although used for revolvers, the 2.5-8x28 Nikon Monarch is also designed as a longer range rifle scope. I use one as a scout scope on my 300 WSM compact, which is certainly more suitable for that than mounting one on a 44 magnum rifle! Both of those scopes would be "OVERSCOPING" your rifle...................Secondly! Your rifle is designed as a short range, quick to target brush buster. Scope it and treat it as such! Within a 100 yards, you need a great FOV for fast acquisition, which means LOW powers. For a maximum variable, a 1x3 like the Weaver V3 is ideal. Great FOV of 87' @100 yards, with fast both eyes open aiming set on 1x, while having more than enough power set on 3x for any 200 yard non hunting lobbing shots..........Another reco would be the 1x red dot sites!........For a 44 mag rifle, stay away from the Burris Safari and the Nikon Monarch....TOOOOOO MUCH!!!..........Shocked              
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 03:24
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Oh Yeah! I forgot!..............Lose the ballistic plex, the BDC reticle and the illuminated reticle (but not with red dots) ideas! These reticles are designed for further hunting ranges and longer range calibers! KEEP your reticle SIMPLE and know your hold overs and hold unders........For hunting, site that rifle in at 75 yards and know the bullet drop at 100 yards.............In fact, some guys would NOT even scope that rifle at all!!! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 09:05
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The 4 & 5x on the high end, is too much magnification for a 44 magnum rifle......              


That is purely opinion.  I have a 3-9x 4200 on my .357 lever gun and use it for rabbit, rockchuck, varmint hunting and plinking and have been completely satisfied with it and have never been over scoped. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 12:12
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Both the Nikon and the Burris are good choices. I don't have those models in either line but in other models. I think the Nikon glass might have a slight edge. The Burris reticle is not as busy as the Nikon with the circles. The Nikon has a 4x zoom range and goes up to 8x. If you can deal with the circles instead of the lines in a ballistic reticle, I would go with the Nikon.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 12:23
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The 4 & 5x on the high end, is too much magnification for a 44 magnum rifle......              


That is purely opinion.  I have a 3-9x 4200 on my .357 lever gun and use it for rabbit, rockchuck, varmint hunting and plinking and have been completely satisfied with it and have never been over scoped. 
............................For the small stuff; rabbits, rockchucks, varmits etc., I`ll concede that a 3x9 is fine.........For pigs, deer sized game and larger within 100 yards, a 3x9 is overscoping! It is slower to acquire the target and is more difficult to acquire a moving target.... Purely an opinion? Yes!.....But also very true! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 12:35
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I still disagree, I have been hunting with a 3-9x on every hunting rifle I own with the exception of my muzzleloader (as it is a law in Utah only 1x) and I have never not been able to shoot an animal of any kind because of that scope.  Yes I run it on 3x or 4x while I am stalking and turn it up when I have time at a longer shot.  But it has never caused me a problem.  I think it is all about knowing how to run a scope properly.  I can pull my gun up and be on target instantly whether the target is standing or running or whatever.  I killed a deer a couple years back with my 45-70 at 50 yards, he was running full bore and I was in the thick aspen tree's and I just led him and shot the gap between the trees and down he went.  I was on 4x and it caused me no problems at all.  I had plenty FOV to see him and lead him and know right when to press the trigger.  Again I just think it is all about training and know how to use your weapon.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 12:41
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im a huge fan of the 3x9 scope and i agree with st73 here, we arent talking about chasing buffalo or elephants in africa with this rifle, i to have shot many of a critter inside 50 yds with my scope on 3x not a big deal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 12:58
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I agree with you guys. In most cases 3x is plenty on the bottom. The O.P. is looking at 1.75 or 2x and he is not over scoping, IMO.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 13:00
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I still disagree, I have been hunting with a 3-9x on every hunting rifle I own with the exception of my muzzleloader (as it is a law in Utah only 1x) and I have never not been able to shoot an animal of any kind because of that scope.  Yes I run it on 3x or 4x while I am stalking and turn it up when I have time at a longer shot.  But it has never caused me a problem.  I think it is all about knowing how to run a scope properly.  I can pull my gun up and be on target instantly whether the target is standing or running or whatever.  I killed a deer a couple years back with my 45-70 at 50 yards, he was running full bore and I was in the thick aspen tree's and I just led him and shot the gap between the trees and down he went.  I was on 4x and it caused me no problems at all.  I had plenty FOV to see him and lead him and know right when to press the trigger.  Again I just think it is all about training and know how to use your weapon.
.................Good! Then we differ here! And I`m not doubting your experience or successes with a 3x9............First! The quicker the signal to the brain, the faster the shooters reaction will be to operate his rifle...........A both eyes open aiming scenario on a lower power with a wider FOV, IS faster to the eye and quicker to the brain, which results in a faster reaction. I have the same 3x9 4200 on my compact. But I also use a scout scope set on the lower power for hunting on that same rifle...............There is absolutely no way that the 3x9 is faster to the target as opposed to a both eyes open aiming situation, set on a low power with a wider FOV!!....Now! With practice, you have had success with your 3x9 and that is all well and good. But the fact remains that any shooter, given the same rifle will be faster to the target with a wider FOV, while aiming with both eyes open!!........You nor I can control that! Its the brain`s natural tendancy to react faster!.............So whatever the speed along with much practice, success, with your 3x9 you have enjoyed, a lower powered variable such as a 1x3 or a red dot 1x would still be quicker by sending a faster signal to the brain. Not only is the FOV better through the scope, but you`re able to keep the other eye open as opposed to squinting with your non aiming eye with your 3x9!    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 13:45
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On these low power optics one problem that I don't like is you see the end of your barrel and that blocks your low FOV.   I have to deal with that with my muzzleloader and it is a nice big block of metal right in the way.  You get a 3x and you don't have to worry about that. Not that that has ever caused me a miss or anything but it sure is annoying.  I shoot with both eyes open on my IOR 4x all the time at close stuff with my AR.  
Obviously there are trades off with each system, and I aggree that an Eotech will always be faster than a magnified optic but we are talking about plinking and maybe a small game or deer hunting rifle here not high risk warrant entries. 
I just don't think there is any way he is over scoping with either of the two choices that he asked about.  He has the low end he needs and who cares how high it goes, he may want it to see his bullet holes on paper easier.

I have saw you make comment once about putting an optic on a 45-70 and said that a 3-9x is to much but a fixed 4x is okay.   That just made me laugh,  Big%20Grin  as the bottom end of a 3-9x is lower than 4x.  I just don't see a problem with having a little more on the top if you still have a good bottom end that suits your type of shooting.  I use 9x all the time to see stuff up closer it is nice to have it, yet I have the low end I need for any type of shooting I have ever done.  It is the same with my IOR 3-18x.  People told me I don't need that much magnification for 1000 yard shooting, and they are right, 90% of the time I never go over 10x.  But it sure is nice once and a while to be able to turn it up to 14 or 18x when I want to see bullet holes and get a closer view of a target.  All you are doing is giving yourself the best of both worlds.  And in the case of a 3-9x vs. a 1.5 -4x or or something the weight difference is only going to be a couple ounces which is no big deal either.

But anyway back to the topic he is not over scoping at all.  1.75 or 2x can a person really sell the diff between the two.  You loose no field of view and 2x is low enough to shoot with both eyes open and it will be extremely fast.  And you still have the higher power to use if you want.

But as we all know opinions are like arm pits.  Big%20Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 16:45
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                      Squeezer    Behead          Naughty  Ed
 
 
 
Hey, Squeeze, is this giving your brain a Quicker Signal, you Maroon??!!Laugh
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 17:14
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

                      Squeezer    Behead          Naughty  Ed
 
 
 
Hey, Squeeze, is this giving your brain a Quicker Signal, you Maroon??!!Laugh
....................................MarchingI need the re-eforcements here!!!...........              
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 17:53
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I once said that I`d put a fixed 4x on a 45-70???..................Don`t remember that one!.............................Ok guys! A 3x9 on any lever carbine can be used successfully. 3x on the low end of things can also be used. 9x on the high end for plinking is ok too!.....With the 1x settings, the front barrels sites will show. To what degree depends on the height of the front sites. Some higher rings can solve some of that issue.................But again, the lever carbines are suppose to be fast to shoulder, handy and quick in the field. Whatever the style of hunting one chooses, there should also be allowances made for speed. My style of hunting, if in the brush at shorter distances, is also predicated on quickness, that if in the event I`m surprised by an animal that is a shooter, I can quickly react from the instant at first sight until the shot is taken (say within 2.5 seconds). That means to see the animal, shoulder the rifle, acquire the target and shoot!........The 3x9 magnification is all well and dandy, but it simply doesn`t have the speed of a both eyes open aiming scout, a 1x red dot, or a lowered powered variable like a 1x3............If speed and quickness isn`t necessarily a top priority, then a higher magnified variable will do nicely on a carbine. But remember too, it only takes a split second to lose a shot and to lose a nice animal or trophy!...........That is a chance that I will not take. I like speed and quickness, not only with my choice of rifles, but also for the scopes that are mounted on them as well!..........The original poster here on this thread will solve that issue for himself and get a scope that does the best for him! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2008 at 19:22
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I don't think the O.P. has a front sight to worry about on his gun. The fat barrel may indeed show up on the two scopes he mentioned, probably not.
I have three scopes that are in the approximate 1.something to 4.something + range. The front sights on all of the heavy hitters they are mounted on show up and it is no big deal. They are  fast with both eyes open. When they are cranked up the irons don't show.
I still think the Nikon is a good choice if he can deal with the reticle. If not, the Burris will work great, guaranteed.
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Do any scopes have BDCs that work at all magnifications, or do they all only work at the highest magnification?
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I'm also believe in the low powered scopes for this type of rifle.  I'd lean towards the weaver 1-3, luepold 1-4 or possibly bushnell trophy 1.75-4 at the lower end of the price scale.
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An excellent choice would be the Weaver Grand Slam in 1.5-5x32.  I have this on a Ruger ranch rifle (which has a high front sight).  The field of view is great, and it's quick and easy for close range shooting.  It also has enough power to get you out to 200 yards.
 
You can see the iron front sight clearly at the scope's lowest setting, but it blurs right out of  view when you rotate the power ring up just a little (to 1 3/4).  
 
Different people have different thoughts on the proper scope power for close range shots.  What works depends in large part upon the shot presented to you, and your own reflexes and shooting skills.  A high powered variable at the lowest setting will work just fine if you have couple of seconds or so to shoot.  A really close-range crossing shot  (25 feet or so) on a bounding deer that's running for its life, and is in view for a only a second or so, is another matter entirely.  A quick-swinging shotgun with a rib and bead sight is an infinitely better choice in this situation than any 3-9 scope ever made.  If you are trying this shot with a scoped rifle, you'd better have a very low power and the widest field of view possible.  Sometimes it's better to let a crossing target get a little further away before you shoot, since this lessens the angle.  A running deer that presents a "coming in" or "going away" shot is considerably easier to hit. 
  
 
 
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Big bore, suppressed, Ill retcile, and that I have never heard of any state that allows suppressed firearms to hunt with makes this more like an urban night sniper weapon rather than a hunting weapon. With this thought why worry about running deer and field of view. Need more light with larger objective. Remember use was not mentioned.
Can they really suppress a 44 mag.?             Man what a can.
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Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

Big bore, suppressed, Ill retcile, and that I have never heard of any state that allows suppressed firearms to hunt with makes this more like an urban night sniper weapon rather than a hunting weapon. With this thought why worry about running deer and field of view. Need more light with larger objective. Remember use was not mentioned.
Can they really suppress a 44 mag.?             Man what a can.
 

That's pretty close to the intended use, or at least the SHTF scenario, though I think I can use it to hunt rabbits at night in Texas.  The field of view does not need to be that large to shoot deer on the run but it does need to be large enough to allow enough hold over for the rapid bullet drop of a .44 subsonic round.  My buddy has the exact same rifle and he says if he turns the scope up for a long shot the field of view is too narrow to reach out any distance.  He says if he were to do it over again, he would look for a fixed 3 power scope, so I'm starting to think a 3 power ACOG might be the best idea, though I'm still looking at the lower power variables and checking out everyone's suggestions.  I would prefer more magnification, but I want my BDCs to work at all magnifications, else the fixed power might be best. 

 

As for the rifle, the suppressor works exceptionally well.  As long as the bullets are subsonic, it's pretty darn quiet. 

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I have a scout scope (Leupold) on my Marlin 45/70 guide gun
and just got a new Bushnell 4200 1.25-4 Ill ret with German #4 reticle for my AR for varmint hunting at night.  (I also have an Eotech for it)

I am very impressed with this little scope and compared it last night against the Leupold, no contest, the 4200 is a lot better in very low light, not to mention the Ill ret.

in fact, I am considering getting one for the 45/70
I also have a Burris Euro Diamond 1.5-6x40 ill ret German #4 coming in today that was going to go on my Tikka 308 stainless lite

might even put that on the AR
will have to play around with them and am going hunting this weekend doing some night time hog/varmint hunting
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for what it is worth. i have a model 94 winchester in 44 magnum and put a nikon monarch ucc 1.5-4.5 20mm tube scope on it. i feel this is an ideal setup for pennsylvania big woods hunting where shots are 100yard maximum. the rig also keeps it sleek to handle and lightweight. i think this setup is about perfect.
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