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Scope for Savage 17 HMR |
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OPT1MUSPR1ME
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Posted: March/15/2010 at 16:48 |
I just purchased a Savage 17 HMR BVSS. I am now looking to outfit it with a decent scope. I plan on using it to shoot paper from about 50 yds to 150 yds and would even like to do some varmint hunting eventually. I would really like to be able to see the holes at 100 yds (minimum) but would like to be able to see them at 150 yds (even if it takes some squinting). I have narrowed my selection down to a few:
I would like to keep the scope at or under $550. I have done a ton of research and still can't decide. I have a few other questions about the individual scopes that could help me make a decision:
Hopefully I can get a little information. This is becoming a really tough choice and I want to make a good, educated decision. Thanks. |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i can tell you that the reticle on the 4200 isnt as thick as the one on the zeiss is. as far as the leupold's go, you would need to look at vx3's to be comparable to the other scopes you listed.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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OPT1MUSPR1ME
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Does anyone happen to know the MOA of the Multi-X reticle for the Bushnell 4200 at 100 yds fully zoomed in?
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OPT1MUSPR1ME
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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When you say it isn't comparable, is that related to clarity? I should have emphasized that clarity is the most important factor to me.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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the vxII isnt in the same zip code in any category as the other scopes you named. the glass quality just isnt there.
Edited by pyro6999 - March/15/2010 at 17:17 |
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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OPT1MUSPR1ME
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Not to beat a dead horse. But just saying it isn't in the same zip code without backing it up doesn't help me much. I need specifics. I have looked through a VX-II and didn't think it was all that bad. I haven't had the chance to look through the other and was hoping to get specifics on how the other are better. The problem is most of the research I have done has yielded this exact same response that says something is better without giving reasons.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i own a varixII ( which isnt exactly a vxII but close) i own a 4200 elite and have spent a lot of time with the zeiss. the 6500 is the same glass as the 4200. i can tell you that all three of those choices are better performing in all categories than the vxII, the 6500 and 4200 have rainguard, which may or may not be a big deal to you. it is to me since they are on deer rifles. what specifically are you looking for here? is clarity and reticle info all you care about?
here is a review on the 4200 you are looking at. http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20697 here is one with the zeiss and the vxII http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20585 Edited by pyro6999 - March/15/2010 at 17:31 |
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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OPT1MUSPR1ME
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Thanks for the response. I was just hoping to get some opinions about the different scopes from some people with first hand experience. I think clarity has to be the most important factor. The size of the reticle is also important because I don't want a large reticle that takes up a large portion of the target making it harder to shoot tight groups or even smaller objects.
The rainguard isn't a huge deal, nor is durability (like. will it break if dropped). Holding zero, etc. is of course important though as well as reliability. |
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tjtjwdad
Optics Journeyman Joined: December/11/2007 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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When it comes to Leupolds you really have to do your homework in order to identify which class of scope is which. IIRC, the current VX-II is the old Vari-X-III scope line. After the Vari-X-III came the VX-III followed by the current VX-3. Optically, they're all different with the VX-3 being the best of these three.
I can tell you without hesitation, the Conquest is optically superior to the VX-II line. As far as comparision to the Bushnell 4200 & 6500 scope line, I can't be of much help.
HTH,
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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if you want a thin reticle dont get the z plex in the zeiss and the multiplex in the 4200 isnt to much thinner. |
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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neilbilly
Optics Master Joined: February/07/2010 Location: Sweeny TX Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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It's a matter of perspective.
Ilya, Pyro, Urimaginaryfriend, SVT, and numerous others have experience with high end optics. What's high end to me is not so much to them. For me if it helps me see better than I can without it, it's of some use. I've only got 2 scopes that are actually good gear. I din't know you could see holes in a shoot and see at 100 yards with a 3-9 scope till I used another guys rifle that had a Zeiss on it. I was amazed as I had always gone with the most magnification I could get in the price range I had. Doing that I had never had anything GOOD, but did have stuff I could use. One of the first things I learned from the residents here was that GOOD glass beats higher magnification every time. Ilya has done a lot of homework and has things broken down pretty well by price range and does a lot of comparisons. I'll post a link to his thoughts on your price range here in a sec. If all you've had previous experience with is wal-mart scopes and such, then that Leopold VXII likely did look really good. "not at all being judgmental, talking from experience myself" My .02 is get the best glass in your price range and you'll be happier than getting the most magnification in your price range. |
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If God didn't want me to play with it, he'd of made my arms shorter.
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neilbilly
Optics Master Joined: February/07/2010 Location: Sweeny TX Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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Oh and good choice on the .17 btw.
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21497&KW=best+scope+under+350&PN=1 |
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If God didn't want me to play with it, he'd of made my arms shorter.
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OPT1MUSPR1ME
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Neilbilly, completely understand everything you stated and it's actually one of the reasons I made this post in the first place, in regards to the good glass/higher magnification argument.
I currently have a SS 3-9x40 on my AR and find that it is just on the edge of seeing holes at 100 yds. Hence the reason for more magnification and/or more clarity. I am not particularly looking for the most magnification but kind of an in between with more emphasis on the glass side if it really helps me see the holes I am putting at a 100 yds with a .17 HMR. I understand the scope I am able to get at $600 is not going to be a US Optics, S&B, etc. I just want to get something that fits what I am trying to do with it. Mainly trying to make sure that I am not disappointed when I buy a $600 scope and look through it on the range the first time. |
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neilbilly
Optics Master Joined: February/07/2010 Location: Sweeny TX Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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I've never had an opportunity to look through the SS 3-9 but have heard good things about them here.
I can attest to the fact that with the Zeiss you can see the holes of a .223 which isn't much bigger than the .17 at 100 yards. "on a shoot and see on a sunny day" There are a lot of good scopes in your price range and several of the guys actually have experience with them. They'd be a lot better than me at recommendations. I have one of these on my .243 and can see the holes well enough. http://swfa.com/Nikon-45-14x40-Buckmaster-Riflescope-P42208.aspx Well not that exact one, mine has the bdc rather than the nikoplex. It's not nearly as good clarity wise as the Zeiss, but it's not junk. Best of luck finding the right one for you. |
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If God didn't want me to play with it, he'd of made my arms shorter.
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OPT1MUSPR1ME
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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So, seems it has been established that the Bushnell's are better than the VX-II and to get a comparable Leupold I would have to step up to a VX-III which doesn't fit in my budget.
How do the Bushnell's compare to the Zeiss in regards to optics clarity?
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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when i compared my 4200 and my team primos to the zeiss, it was a tough call, until it got dark, then the zeiss shined. the zeiss also has a more generous field of view ( at least in the 3x9) being this is for a non kicking rifle im sure how much that matters. the 4200 is almost cheap enough right now that you could buy 2 of them and only spend an extra $100 over the cost of a zeiss. as far as the clairity question goes, they were so close, your eyes may differ from mine. i really didnt want to call one a scope a winner over the other.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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If you want versatility, Elite 6500 2.5-16x42 is about as versatile as you are going to find. The scope itself is fairly compact. I have a snapshot in my review, where it is next to several other scopes (third from the right). As far as reticles go, I like MilDot as a good allround reticle. If you are hell bent on getting a super thin target-type reticle, then you should be looking at some more specialized scopes. In terms of optical quality, I think Elite 4200 and 6500 scopes offer a lot for the money. They offer similar image quality, but Elite 6500 scopes are a fair bit more versatile due to extended magnification range and less critical eyerelief. If you are hoping to keep overall scope size fairly compact, I suggest you stay away from overly high magnifications, so 14x to 16x top end is a good way to go. In addition to Elite 6500 2.5-16x42, you can also consider Sightron S2 Big Sky. The 4.5-14x44 and 4-16x42 models are available both with a MilDot and with a Target Dot reticle. ILya
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cruft
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/20/2005 Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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test
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OPT1MUSPR1ME
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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OK, after much deliberation I decided to go with the Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40. It's actually cheaper than the 6500 and I had called to make sure the reticle isn't too wide for my intended purpose.
I do have one question for any 4200 4-16x40 owners out there. What is the outside diameter of the objective? Why Bushnell doesn't publish this information on it's website I don't know. I called their technical support and they could not give me this information either, they told me they would go measure and get back to me, been waiting for two days now. This can't be as hard as it is becoming. I just want to make sure I get the right scope mount height. I am thinking some Talley Lightweight Medium rings will fit the bill but I would love to confirm before I purchase.
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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If you are getting the new (side focus) version, the outer diameter of the objective lens is ~48mm. ILya
Edited by koshkin - March/18/2010 at 11:14 |
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