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Scope for Savage 17 HMR

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 16:48
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I just purchased a Savage 17 HMR BVSS. I am now looking to outfit it with a decent scope. I plan on using it to shoot paper from about 50 yds to 150 yds and would even like to do some varmint hunting eventually. I would really like to be able to see the holes at 100 yds (minimum) but would like to be able to see them at 150 yds (even if it takes some squinting). I have narrowed my selection down to a few:

  1. Leupold VX-II 4-12x40 AO
  2. Leupold VX-II 6-18x40 AO
  3. Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x42
  4. Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40
  5. Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40

I would like to keep the scope at or under $550. I have done a ton of research and still can't decide. I have a few other questions about the individual scopes that could help me make a decision:

  • Are the Leupolds even close to the Bushnell or Zeiss in clarity?
  • How thick is the Multi-X reticle of the Bushnell Elite 4200? It appears to be large. Would it work for accurate target shooting?
  • The size and weight of the Leupolds is less than the Bushnell's. This rifle isn't all that big. Are the Bushnell's (about3 ounces heavier and 1 inch longer) going to be too large for the rifle and what I want to do?

Hopefully I can get a little information. This is becoming a really tough choice and I want to make a good, educated decision.

Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 16:51
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i can tell you that the reticle on the 4200 isnt as thick as the one on the zeiss is. as far as the leupold's go, you would need to look at vx3's to be comparable to the other scopes you listed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 16:59
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Does anyone happen to know the MOA of the Multi-X reticle for the Bushnell 4200 at 100 yds fully zoomed in?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:01
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When you say it isn't comparable, is that related to clarity? I should have emphasized that clarity is the most important factor to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:09
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the vxII isnt in the same zip code in any category as the other scopes you named.  the glass quality just isnt there.


Edited by pyro6999 - March/15/2010 at 17:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:16
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Not to beat a dead horse. But just saying it isn't in the same zip code without backing it up doesn't help me much. I need specifics. I have looked through a VX-II and didn't think it was all that bad. I haven't had the chance to look through the other and was hoping to get specifics on how the other are better. The problem is most of the research I have done has yielded this exact same response that says something is better without giving reasons.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:20
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i own a varixII ( which isnt exactly a vxII but close) i own a 4200 elite and have spent a lot of time with the zeiss. the 6500 is the same glass as the 4200. i can tell you that all three of those choices are better performing in all categories than the vxII, the 6500 and 4200 have rainguard, which may or may not be a big deal to you. it is to me since they are on deer rifles. what specifically are you looking for here? is clarity and reticle info all you care about?

here is a review on the 4200 you are looking at.
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20697

here is one with the zeiss and the vxII
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20585


Edited by pyro6999 - March/15/2010 at 17:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:36
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Thanks for the response. I was just hoping to get some opinions about the different scopes from some people with first hand experience. I think clarity has to be the most important factor. The size of the reticle is also important because I don't want a large reticle that takes up a large portion of the target making it harder to shoot tight groups or even smaller objects.

The rainguard isn't a huge deal, nor is durability (like. will it break if dropped). Holding zero, etc. is of course important though as well as reliability.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:39
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Originally posted by OPT1MUSPR1ME OPT1MUSPR1ME wrote:

Not to beat a dead horse. But just saying it isn't in the same zip code without backing it up doesn't help me much. I need specifics. I have looked through a VX-II and didn't think it was all that bad. I haven't had the chance to look through the other and was hoping to get specifics on how the other are better. The problem is most of the research I have done has yielded this exact same response that says something is better without giving reasons.
 
When it comes to Leupolds you really have to do your homework in order to identify which class of scope is which.  IIRC, the current VX-II is the old Vari-X-III scope line.  After the Vari-X-III came the VX-III followed by the current VX-3.  Optically, they're all different with the VX-3 being the best of these three.
 
I can tell you without hesitation, the Conquest is optically superior to the VX-II line.  As far as comparision to the Bushnell 4200 & 6500 scope line, I can't be of much help.
 
HTH,
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:54
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Originally posted by OPT1MUSPR1ME OPT1MUSPR1ME wrote:

Thanks for the response. I was just hoping to get some opinions about the different scopes from some people with first hand experience. I think clarity has to be the most important factor. The size of the reticle is also important because I don't want a large reticle that takes up a large portion of the target making it harder to shoot tight groups or even smaller objects.

The rainguard isn't a huge deal, nor is durability (like. will it break if dropped). Holding zero, etc. is of course important though as well as reliability.

if you want a thin reticle dont get the z plex in the zeiss and the multiplex in the 4200 isnt to much thinner.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:55
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It's a matter of perspective.

Ilya, Pyro, Urimaginaryfriend, SVT, and numerous others have experience with high end optics.

What's high end to me is not so much to them. For me if it helps me see better than I can without it, it's of some use. I've only got 2 scopes that are actually good gear. I din't know you could see holes in a shoot and see at 100 yards with a 3-9 scope till I used another guys rifle that had a Zeiss on it. I was amazed as I had always gone with the most magnification I could get in the price range I had. Doing that I had never had anything GOOD, but did have stuff I could use.

One of the first things I learned from the residents here was that GOOD glass beats higher magnification every time.

Ilya has done a lot of homework and has things broken down pretty well by price range and does a lot of comparisons. I'll post a link to his thoughts on your price range here in a sec.

If all you've had previous experience with is wal-mart scopes and such, then that Leopold VXII likely did look really good. "not at all being judgmental, talking from experience myself"

My .02 is get the best glass in your price range and you'll be happier than getting the most magnification in your price range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 18:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 18:25
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Neilbilly, completely understand everything you stated and it's actually one of the reasons I made this post in the first place, in regards to the good glass/higher magnification argument.

I currently have a SS 3-9x40 on my AR and find that it is just on the edge of seeing holes at 100 yds. Hence the reason for more magnification and/or more clarity. I am not particularly looking for the most magnification but kind of an in between with more emphasis on the glass side if it really helps me see the holes I am putting at a 100 yds with a .17 HMR.

I understand the scope I am able to get at $600 is not going to be a US Optics, S&B, etc. I just want to get something that fits what I am trying to do with it. Mainly trying to make sure that I am not disappointed when I buy a $600 scope and look through it on the range the first time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 18:47
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I've never had an opportunity to look through the SS 3-9 but have heard good things about them here.

I can attest to the fact that with the Zeiss you can see the holes of a .223 which isn't much bigger than the .17 at 100 yards. "on a shoot and see on a sunny day"

There are a lot of good scopes in your price range and several of the guys actually have experience with them. They'd be a lot better than me at recommendations. I have one of these on my .243 and can see the holes well enough.

http://swfa.com/Nikon-45-14x40-Buckmaster-Riflescope-P42208.aspx

Well not that exact one, mine has the bdc rather than the nikoplex. It's not nearly as good clarity wise as the Zeiss, but it's not junk.


Best of luck finding the right one for you.


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So, seems it has been established that the Bushnell's are better than the VX-II and to get a comparable Leupold I would have to step up to a VX-III which doesn't fit in my budget.

How do the Bushnell's compare to the Zeiss in regards to optics clarity?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 20:32
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when i compared my 4200 and my team primos to the zeiss, it was a tough call, until it got dark, then the zeiss shined. the zeiss also has a more generous field of view ( at least in the 3x9) being this is for a non kicking rifle im sure how much that matters. the 4200 is almost cheap enough right now that you could buy 2 of them and only spend an extra $100 over the cost of a zeiss. as far as the clairity question goes, they were so close, your eyes may differ from mine. i really didnt want to call one a scope a winner over the other.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2010 at 02:56
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If you want versatility, Elite 6500 2.5-16x42 is about as versatile as you are going to find.  The scope itself is fairly compact.  I have a snapshot in my review, where it is next to several other scopes (third from the right).

As far as reticles go, I like MilDot as a good allround reticle.  If you are hell bent on getting a super thin target-type reticle, then you should be looking at some more specialized scopes.

In terms of optical quality, I think Elite 4200 and 6500 scopes offer a lot for the money.  They offer similar image quality, but Elite 6500 scopes are a fair bit more versatile due to extended magnification range and less critical eyerelief.

If you are hoping to keep overall scope size fairly compact, I suggest you stay away from overly high magnifications, so 14x to 16x top end is a good way to go.

In addition to Elite 6500 2.5-16x42, you can also consider Sightron S2 Big Sky.  The 4.5-14x44 and 4-16x42 models are available both with a MilDot and with a Target Dot reticle.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2010 at 11:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2010 at 09:15
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OK, after much deliberation I decided to go with the Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40. It's actually cheaper than the 6500 and I had called to make sure the reticle isn't too wide for my intended purpose.

I do have one question for any 4200 4-16x40 owners out there. What is the outside diameter of the objective? 

Why Bushnell doesn't publish this information on it's website I don't know. I called their technical support and they could not give me this information either, they told me they would go measure and get back to me, been waiting for two days now. This can't be as hard as it is becoming. I just want to make sure I get the right scope mount height. I am thinking some Talley Lightweight Medium rings will fit the bill but I would love to confirm before I purchase.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2010 at 11:12
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Originally posted by OPT1MUSPR1ME OPT1MUSPR1ME wrote:

OK, after much deliberation I decided to go with the Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40. It's actually cheaper than the 6500 and I had called to make sure the reticle isn't too wide for my intended purpose.

I do have one question for any 4200 4-16x40 owners out there. What is the outside diameter of the objective? 

Why Bushnell doesn't publish this information on it's website I don't know. I called their technical support and they could not give me this information either, they told me they would go measure and get back to me, been waiting for two days now. This can't be as hard as it is becoming. I just want to make sure I get the right scope mount height. I am thinking some Talley Lightweight Medium rings will fit the bill but I would love to confirm before I purchase.

If you are getting the new (side focus) version, the outer diameter of the objective lens is ~48mm.

ILya


Edited by koshkin - March/18/2010 at 11:14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2010 at 12:20
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Thanks ILya. You were much faster than Bushnell Tech Support. Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2010 at 14:44
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I just put a Bushnell 4200 2.5 x 10 on a .17.  I didn't see the need for going to higher res on the scope because I don't plan on pushing the gun much past that.  I'm not sure how far you are planning to shoot.  Some people will try to push them 300 + yards.  I feel 200 yard shots were my limit with the cartridge. 

On my .204 and .223 I have 16 x but I have never dialed them up that high and done fine shooting chucks and pd's at 200+.  These cartridges are better suited for 300-500 yard shots where a 16x could come in handy.
 
A lot of the experienced shooters and varminters will advise to spend the money on the better glass rather than the more powerful settings.
 


Edited by scooter65 - March/18/2010 at 14:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2010 at 10:40
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I think 150 yards is going to be my limit. Maybe 200 like you stated. I justed wanted something with a little more zoom power to hopefully see the holes in the target better. Whether or not that is going to possible I won't know till I try. I would love to get something with better glass, but I just felt like spending that much money to only go 200 yards max seemed like a waste of money. I could be proved wrong though depending on how I actually like the 4200.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2010 at 11:36
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If you want a nice scope with a very 'fine', as in thin, crosshair...check out the Leupold rimfire line. I really like my 2-7X and I know they also offer a 3-9X. Probably parallax adjusted for about 75 yards I believe. They are $300 and below as well.
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