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Scope for MCX 300BLK SBR

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2015 at 04:16
penguin6 View Drop Down
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I've been out of the optics loop for almost 2 years now, and I don't know what's new or newly vetted in scopes. I'd appreciate some input on a scope for a 300 Blackout. I bought a Sig MCX pistol with a 9" barrel. Since the ATF reversed their position on shoulder-mounting the pistol brace, I've submitted the form to SBR the lower. When it's approved, I'll take it to the range. I'll be shooting with a suppressor, both super- and subsonic.

Its primary role will be home defense, so the primary optic will be an Aimpoint Micro. Secondary use will be for shooting hogs occasionally, almost always from a blind with set distances to feeders ranging from 40-150 yds. For this I'll remove the Aimpoint and mount a scope.

QD mounts: Does anyone recommend a specific Aimpoint QD mount? I've used Larue in the past. For the rifle, I'm considering a Bobro, which I have on other scopes. Since my shooting distances will be short, minor variations in return to zero aren't a problem. Up to one MOA is OK. I'm interested in light weight and durability. Any other good options?

Scope: Uncluttered, simple reticle. Illum is heavily preferred, but not mandatory.   There's not a lot of room on the rail, and I don't want to put a heavy, bulky scope on a very lightweight gun, so small and light is in order. I've always been a magnification fan, because I really like to see what's going on where I'm shooting, but I understand high magnification and small/light don't usually go together. Last range trip to sight in a .25-06, I used the 3X on my 3-9X half the time, and I found my groups at 100 yds only increased by about 1/2" at most, so I'm sure I can get used to lower magnification at those short distances. I know people shoot very well at long distances with that mag, but I'm a little OCD about what exactly is going on at the location I'm sending a bullet to. For that reason, I'd like to have as much mag as possible within the constraints of small and light. Fixed power is OK since I'll be shooting at relatively stationary targets at known distances, but variable is always nice just in case. Capped turrets are heavily preferred, and no ballistic reticle is necessary. Subs will have a different zero than supers, so whatever's under the caps needs to be easy to dial from one set zero to another and back. I'll know beforehand which I'll be using, so as long as I can mark which is which, I'll be switching zeroes in lighted, controlled conditions. It will be used primarily at night, aided with a red light. I'd love to stay under $600.

Thoughts?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2015 at 10:53
Sgt. D View Drop Down
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There are many to choose from in your budget. I recommend these Nikon because you will be impressed with the glass and coating clarity in low light conditions. As well as the turret design and quality of tracking. For the money these Nikon have impressed me and all those who have tried them. And to qualify I have mostly Ziess, IOR and US Optics on my rifles. I set my 300BLK up with the Nikon M-300BLK 1.5-6X42 because I want to get all it has from 0 to as far as it will lob em.........

Good Luck with it!!

http://swfa.com/Nikon-25-10x40-ProStaff-5-Riflescope-P61617.aspx

http://swfa.com/Nikon-25-10x50-ProStaff-5-Riflescope-P61620.aspx


http://swfa.com/Nikon-15-6x42-M-300-BLK-30mm-Riflescope-P68403.aspx




Edited by Sgt. D - February/27/2015 at 11:13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2015 at 17:22
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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First, get ready to wait.  The BATFE isn't real concerned with your timelines for now, so they will take their time on your form 4.  I'm sure you know that, but I enjoy stating the obvious.

Next, what is your experience with an SBR 300?  I have had a few and have some recommendations, but most go counter to your stated thoughts and/or wants.

1.  A subsonic 300 drops. FAST!  So much so that your dope change from a 100 yard zero to a 150 yard shot will be significantly more than you probably anticipate.  And if you make a 50 yard shot with a 100 yard zero, it gets even crazier.  My 300s shooting subs wear a scope with a drop reticle, nothing caliber-specific, just a mil-based reticle.  And I usually have a range card on the rifle or on my phone, depending on application.  

2.  A supersonic 300 with a barrel that short will be loud. Even suppressed, LOUD, be ready for that.

3.  Moving scopes will result in lots of time spent checking zero, I would recommend reconsidering and going with a good 1-4 or 1-6 and forget the aimpoint and scope combo.  Or, get the scope you want and an offset red dot.  Yes, it will be bulkier than an either-or setup, but it will be far less hassle to maintain.

4.  With subsonic, a 1MOA shift might be okay with a red dot, but be wary of letting it wander too much.  It isn't an instant incapacitation round unless exceedingly well placed.  Even then, not always. And maybe not usually.

They are much, much fun, and suppressed, even more so.  Be ready for all manner of amateur law enforcement and range expert-types to tell you it is illegal.  I cannot say how many times some idiot has told me I couldn't own/shoot a specific setup at the range.  And on more than a few occasions, I have had off-duty cops show me their badge and say, "That is illegal, you need to leave now."  

They are fun, the form 4 wait is worth the time, and be ready for a big surprise when you start putting together dope tables for supers and subs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2015 at 19:15
Steelbenz View Drop Down
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I'm playing in the same band as you my friend and RC is spot on. I went with the 1-4x illuminated SS.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2015 at 23:07
Sgt. D View Drop Down
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RC, if he runs a 8 to 10" suppressor won't that bump the muzzle velocity up to near rifle speeds on supersonic?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2015 at 23:49
penguin6 View Drop Down
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Thanks for the tips so far.

Sgt D--I'll check out the scopes you recommended.  Thank you for the input.
 
RC--I have some experience with suppressed 300 in a rifle length barrel.  Thanks for the great info, especially about being prepared for increased supersonic noise levels.  The suppressor I already have.  I filed an eform 1 for the SBR;  first time I've done that, so we'll see how it works out.  I'd considered the variable/offset combo and decided against it.  After your recommendation and second from Steelbenz, I thought it over again and have decided to follow your advice.  I'll use a 46 yd (I believe) zero for the 110 Barnes supers that will work without doping anything for the ranges I'll be shooting.  I'll use a 25 ish yd zero for the subs that will cover me for the short-range blinds out to 60 yds or so.  Unless I can find a commercial subsonic load that will consistently group under 2 MOA without unexplained flyers, I'll continue to limit use of subs to 50ish yds and under for shots in the ear.
 
So, now to the specifics:  Which scopes should be on my short list?  SS line I'm familiar with, although I haven't owned one.  What else should I be looking at?  I guess a 1-6x, 2-7xish type of thing would be fine for overall if I have offsets for the close in-house stuff.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2015 at 13:45
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:


RC, if he runs a 8 to 10" suppressor won't that bump the muzzle velocity up to near rifle speeds on supersonic?


No. The suppressor adds a very few FPS, commonly referred to as free-bore boost, but not much.

On the scope question, given the ranges you specify, I would look at a 1-4 or 1-6. In truth, with a red dot offset, i would be more inclined to go 3-9, that gives you increased precision and accuracy when you want/need, and speed with the dot when needed.

If you plan to go with a 1-4 or 1-6, forget the red dot, just get illumination and all bases are covered.

For my setup similar to yours (300 SBR with a can) I run an SS 3-9 and a Burris fastfire3, very good setup, won't break the bank.

Is your can titanium or steel?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2015 at 01:41
penguin6 View Drop Down
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Can is Inconel.  AAC 762 SD. 
 
I'll check out the SS 3-9.   If that mag works in combo with an offset, I may just put on the Accupoint 3-9 I have sitting in a closet in a Bobro mount. 
 
I've never run a MRD.  If you had to do it again, would you get the Burris or something else?
 
In prior discussions, I've seen Ilya recommend the Viper PST 2.5-10x32 fairly often.   Any thoughts on that one compared to the SS?
 
Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2015 at 15:57
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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I have not run the viper, cannot say.

On the offset red dot, I run a trijicon rmr, the larger srs, reflex, aimpoint micro, and Burris. For the money, Burris is great. It doesn't offer the tritium illumination of of the rmr or reflex, but it doesn't cost what they do. If you can afford the rmr, it is awesome, my favorite when running night vision.
The doctor is also an option, I think it is very similar to the Burris.

In the trijicon accupoint, it is a great scope, but has no drop on the reticle (triangle reticle does not, mil dot reticle does at one specific power) which is the only reason I would not recommend for a 300 SBR. Any FFP scope with a suitable reticle and power range would be preferred. For me, at least.

Edited by Rancid Coolaid - March/01/2015 at 18:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2015 at 17:44
penguin6 View Drop Down
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Makes sense. Great info. Thank you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 09:45
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I've fought demons looking for a do it all SBR blackout scope, one does not exist.   RC's suggestion of a scope with red dot on offset is the only viable option for a do it all system that works effectively.  I've relegated my 8" blackout to a subsonic only gun due to the downside of shooting supersonics through my can with only the 8" barrel. You may want to check with AAC to ensure they recommend/will warranty if you shoot supersonic with only an 8" barrel. I was told by two large suppressor companies it would harm the suppressor and possibly cause issues.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 09:53
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Good point.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 10:41
penguin6 View Drop Down
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Thanks for the input. I called AAC when I bought the pistol, because the warranty page says 10" is the cutoff for centerfire. I asked about the 9" barrel on the MCX, and the rep quickly said it was no problem with the Blackout supersonics. I'll call again just to make sure he didn't think I meant the SDN 6, which is specifically rated for shorter barrels. In the meantime, I'll continue researching scope/offset combos until the SBR filing gets approved. If the AAC can won't work with supers, I'll work with subs until the Sig silencers are available, unless there's a better option.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 12:09
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Just be cautious of what they tell you over the phone vs what is written in their warranty statement.  Just cause john doe at aac said it was ok on the phone doesn't mean john doe at aac will warranty it should you run into a problem.  ........... IN other words, get it in writing that its ok to use on a 9" barrel and that it won't void warranty.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2015 at 09:35
penguin6 View Drop Down
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Good advice. Thank you.
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