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Scope for M4A2

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2007 at 16:37
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Optics GrassHopper
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here's the deal.  I have a bushmaster M4A2 14.5" barrel and want to take it up to the next level and add a scope.  I have narrowed down my options to 3 sights, an Aimpoint, an original Colt 4x built for the A2 carrying handle, and an IOR 4x tactical scope.  The problem is that I have an A2 carrying handle and I am not sure if the IOR will function properly as I assume it is built more for a flattop.  My buddy thinks I'm silly trying to mount a scope on an A2 and thinks I should stick to the aimpoint.  This will be my first optic ever, so I really don't wanna mess this one up.  Is it silly of my to try to mount a scope on my M4 instead of just getting an aimpoint?  I really appreciate any and all advice with this.  I hope someone can help. (my price range is around 500 for the scope if this helps)

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2007 at 16:58
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Welcome to The OT.

 

What type of shooting do you plan on doing and at what ranges?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2007 at 17:10
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Optics Jedi Master
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  For a reflex, add one of these and you are good to go

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-6120-102-arms-39-a2-plus-mod-mount.as px

 

As cheaptrick said, need to know what you want to shoot and at what range.  IOR 4x is very different from Aimpoint, both in form and function.

 

Clarify and you'll get some good advice.  Maybe more than you want!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2007 at 17:41
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Optics GrassHopper
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I plan on shooting stationary targets from 75-300 yards, this is not a designated CQB rifle.  Hope this helps.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2007 at 18:13
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Optics GrassHopper
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Anyone have any advice?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2007 at 19:22
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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 http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=324487

 

You have already gone to the source, so it seems.... 

 

Best of luck!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2007 at 19:35
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Optics GrassHopper
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I haven't really gotten much response from ARFCOM in terms of what would be better, aimpoint or IOR
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2007 at 20:40
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300 yards is do-able with an Aimpoint, not so much with EoTech.  I don't know anything about the colt, the ACOG would be perfect but ain't inexpensive.

 

http://www.swfa.com/c-225-trijicon-acog-rifle-scopes.aspx

 

 

 

My advice wouild be ACOG.

 

my advice.  I own Aimpoint and EoTech and would recommend ACOG.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2007 at 10:40
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6546 Trijicon 4x32 ACOG TA01, Full Line Red Illumination, .223 bullet drop reticle, ready to mount in carry handle, 100% new in box, display model $990.00 $679.95

If you want a 4x the Trijicon is the pick of the litter. 300 yds with open sights is very easy. If buying the Aimpoint get a 2moa model and set it up using the ARMS mount that Rancid Coolaid recomended so the dot co-witnesses with the iron sights. I used the Comp M4 Aimpoint for that and like it very well but its a little more expensive. Note since you have a 14.5 in barrel any scope with a balistic reticle will be off a little so you need to spend time on the range and see what mark corresponds to what distance. I have owned the 4x Colt scope and 30 yrs ago it was the best option today it is not. As for other optics remember that you can buy just an A4 upper and have that installed if you really want to use a larger heavier optic. One other option is trade your A2 upper for an A4 upper at a gun show you will have to pay some difference to make it happen but you might be able to work a trade and you would be better off with the 16 in barrel preferably a Rock River upper with a Vortex falsh hider on it. 16 in gives higher velocity than 14.5in. The 14.5 in barrel has a permanently attached so so flash suppressor to get it to the legal 16 in minimum.   Here is a poto of an A2 with an EOTech:

1:

 The mount on this Rock River gun is "Midwest Industries A2 adjustable Cantilever Mount but the ARMS mount looks sturdier to me. The Aim Point would go where this EOTech is but get 2MOA not the 4 MOA. Remember that at 300 yds 1 MOA is 3 inches so 2 MOA will cover 6 inches which is still workable make that a 4 MOA covering 12 inches and it's no longer precision shooting, take it past 300 and you are screwed with 4 MOA.

Actually If I was using the quad rail forend I would mount directly to the top rail which is how my Comp M4 is mounted, so a quad rail forend Rock River part #AR0010FL for CAR length at $120 is another possible.for your A2.  I really kind of like the idea of just putting the Quad Rail Lightweight Free Float forend on your A2 and using that to put an aimpoint on.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=AR0010FL& ;storeid=1&image=hgrdqdlw.gif



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2007 at 10:56
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11972 Aimpoint CompM4 30mm Red Dot Sight                          Aimpoint CompM4 30mm Red Dot Sight
  • Matte
  • 2 MOA Dot
  • 30mm
  • Night Vision Compatible
  • Picatinny Mount Included
SWFA: $699.95
More Info... Buy Now
This one sits on top of the quad rail forend and co-witnesses with the iron sights on my Rock River CAR.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2007 at 11:48
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Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks for the replies.  It seems to me that I wouldn't like the cowitness idea.  I'd like my optic up close to my eye, just a preference.  In that case I guess i would just mount directly to the top of the carrying handle.  I was deciding to go w/ a version of the 4x Colt optic, made by Hakko if anyone has heard of these.  It mounts directly to the carrying handle, but in the back of my mind i feel like I should get the aimpoint.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2007 at 16:03
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Good posts, Ufriend!

I think you covered a lot of ground.

 

A2's are so hinky to try to scope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2007 at 16:04
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Optics Jedi Master
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Aimpoint is good but doesn't go close to the eye (no magnification so "both eyes open."

 

With what you've said and what you own, I'd say the ACOG is the best bet.  It will mount directly to the carry handle, it madgnifies enough to be fairly precise at 300 yards and very precise at 75 yards.

 

If you don't get the ACOG, get the Aimpoint on the forward mount.  If you've been shooting open sites on an AR, you will bery much like the Aimpoint setup and function.

 

I ahve a Springfield SOCOM whose purpose is the same as yours and it has an Aimpoint on it.  Hits targets fine at 300 and beyond.  But the ACOG is a better fit, and more expenseive.  Ain't it strange how that always happens?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2007 at 21:48
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I'm not sure that you understand the value of having the sight co-witness.

1. when it gets dark you can see the red dot even though you cant tell where the front sight is.

2. if the sights co-witness one is a check of the other that the sight is not out of adjustment.

3. the red dot aids in the speed of target acquisition.

Just like RC said the ACOG is the ticket if you want a 4x and the 2MOA Aimpoint or an EOTech is the ticket if you want a red dot. Now if you want to put something else on there - it's your gun do what you want. If you want to put a conventional scope on switch the upper to A4 and have at it. I don't get extra brownie points for telling you AimPoint EOTech and Trijicon  so if you like a Barska what can I say ---HMMM think Id buy a Weaver V3 first.

849400 Weaver 1-3x20 Classic V3 Series Rifle Scope                 Weaver 1-3x20 Classic V3 Series Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Dual-X
  • 1"
SWFA: $149.95
More Info... Buy Now

LEU52136 Leupold Mark 4 Base                                         Leupold Mark 4 Base
  • Colt AR15 & M16
  • Matte
  • Carry Handle Mount
SWFA: $29.95
More Info... Buy Now

LEU54144 Leupold PRW 1" Rings                                        Leupold PRW 1" Rings
  • Matte
  • Low
SWFA: $36.95
More Info... Buy Now

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2007 at 20:33
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My vote is for ACOG, I've used the original Colt extensively and it was good for it's time but not in the same league (not a big fan of the BDC arrangement)....there's a TA01 on The Samplelist for $679, I think you'll be very pleased with that route.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2007 at 20:37
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Also, for about $100, a knowledgible (sp?) person can swap out your upper....just a thought...put your original on ebay and break even.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2007 at 19:50
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I think the point is that he is not willing to spend the money to go first class and wants a conventional optic with as little cost and pain as possible because nobody is shooting back.  Some people have to learn the hard way that mounting to an A2 just sucks, it sucks, it sucks. Best system to A2 is Trijicon ACOG but he doesn't want to spend that kind of money, doesnt matter to him that you can drill a second hole buy a second screw and attach the ACOG with two points of attachment so it is much less likely to vibrate loose and change point of impact at the worst time, because nobody is shooting back.   (yet)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2007 at 20:25
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I think if that's the case XXXX (google hakko +colt...I don't see a problem mentioning this because SWFA doesn't carry hakko) has the hakko for well under $100.....or I could sell him my craptastic leapers T168 for $50 plus shipping.....but I'm thinking in the long run he's not going to be happy with either (I wasn't.....I also have a chink copy of the Colt scope I bought many moons ago sitting in my safe at my parent's house but it paled in comparison to the actual Colt scope that I used at work....as to be expected).   It may be a surprise to some that I have some inferior chink stuff after railing against it a time or two....but that is a factor of previously having more limited means during my first house purchase...so I can understand with trying to find a cost-effective solution....but my caution is well-intended so one doesn't wind up like me with a couple of scopes I'm too embarrassed to sell kickin' around my junk drawer.....the T168 will probably make a great kids' .22 scope someday and I'll probably give the colt-copy to my bro for his Jaeger AP-74 (surprisingly accurate .22 auto).

Edited by sandsock
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2007 at 20:57
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I chewed on this a little longer, given the criteria, I'd recommend the Aimpoint....I have two and think they're great for their type of scope...the EOTech has some advantages but the Aimpoint is a solid unit and the ideal set up for a M4-gery to me is a non-magnified optic...the whole M4-ACOG concept is a little silly (i.e. to make one gun do everything....sopmod etc) and it is why the military eventually went to 20inch barrels for designated (5.56) marksman (although 7.62 also makes more sense to me as well for a DM).  I would say buy the Aimpoint and if down the road you really still feel the need for magnification, go with the 3x (like is on the Samplelist).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 02:06
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Im currently uesing a EOTECH here in Afghanistan and have no problem making hits between 10-400 yards. The Aimpoint is also a good optic and very fast if you just plan to target shoot or hunt you don't need a model that is night vision capable so you can save some money there make sure you get a solid mount.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 11:06
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