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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 09:42
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Looking for a good scope for first light and last light hunting use.I hunt in pine thickets and hard wood swamps,the scope will be used on a remington 700 300 saum,would like to know the difference in the 50mm and the 56 mm,any help will be appreciated. THANK'S FOR ANY ADVICE
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 09:45
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Price range?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 10:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 11:00
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Trijicon 1-4x24, 1.25-4x24 or an Aimpoint. The reasons are that the biggest issue you're going to have is seeing the reticle and you're shots are short range. Any better brand scope with no more than two power on the low end and a #4 reticle will work. 1 or 1.25 on the low side is ideal. I don't like typical  illuminated reticles because they can blind you if they won't dim low enough. I hunt a lot of pine thickets where it's dark at noon on a cloudy day. The reticle is the key here.  If you go the Trijicon route get an amber reticle. Red is for bright conditions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 11:02
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what's the average shot distance:
shortest?
longest?

what's the most you are willing to spend?

what ever the answer is, double that :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 14:44
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I do a lot of low light hunting including moonlit nights over frost or snow cowered fields for our red deer.
 
I came a long way before I ended up with the Zeiss Victory 3-12x56 with the illuminated #40 reticle. This is in my humble opinion a perfect scope for said hunting.
The only thing against it is perhaps the price...
 
Another scope that stands out in regard to quality and value versus money, is the Meopta Meostar 3-12x56 with the illuminated reticle #4C.
Those are the two I have used and I can highly reccomend both of them.
If you are shooting at short distances in dense woods,  the lowest setting on 3 might be a bit to much though...
 
Also the Zeiss Victory 2,5-10x50 is a scope with top quality class for low light hunting.
Another good all round scope size is the 1,5-6x42 which is an old stand by for low light hunting here in Europe. Eighter a S&B, Zeiss or Swaro.
For a budget minded, the Nicon Monarc Gold in 1,5-6x42 is a good scope which I have used both on my 35 Whelen and on my 338 Winmag with good results.
 
With all respect, I can´t see what a x24 scope or an Aimpont has to do with low light hunting.
In my neck of woods a hunter with such a set up would be home and under the blankets by the time I get ready to start hunting with my Zeiss Victory or the Meopta Meostar.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 15:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 18:15
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"With all respect, I can´t see what a x24 scope or an Aimpont has to do with low light hunting."

Probably because you may not understand exit pupil. Exit pupil is the diameter of the "virtual aperture" where the image meets your eye. Any amount larger than your pupil can expand to accept is lost. If the exit pupil of the scope is 7mm, but your pupil only opens to 6mm, the additional 1mm is of no use. 24mm divided by 4 = 6mm. This is the most exit pupil a lot of people can use. At 2x the exit pupil would be 12, more than anyone can use.  Set on 2 or 3 power for pine thicket shooting the 24mm objective is just as good as a 56mm objective for all practical purposes. Now if that scope were a 4-14 then you would need that 56mm objective. That's why you don't see any 4-14x24 scopes. Also keep in mind that scopes don't gather light. They pass a percentage of available light through to your eye, usually +90% on a good one. Both options I mentioned also allow shooting with BOTH eyes open, which is also well suited to pine thickets. I mentioned Aimpoint because they dim REALLY low. At least mine does. I mentioned the 1-4x24 Trijicon because the low end is of much more use in a pine thicket than a 3x would be and just as bright up through 3x in low light, which would be the top end of magnification needed for pine thickets and swamps. Clear as mud?Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 20:41
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I forgot an important point! Your scope would beat my Trijicon at any 4 or less power due to the quality of the glass, not the size of the objective. The 1-4x24 would be a really bad choice in your neck of the woods because you're hunting over fields at night. In those conditions the 1-4x24 would be a GREAT excuse to warm up inside.

Edited by jetwrnch - January/07/2011 at 20:42
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 20:53
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I assure you that our friend Arild, from Norway, knows quite well about low light hunting. I have many of his success pictures to prove it. Zeiss and Meopta rock in low light hunting.
The extra exit pupil is also of value. It gives the "forgiveness" in eye position that we all crave about. It is not wasted.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2011 at 21:54
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Thanks. I meant no disrespect. The comment concerning my suggestion of the 1-4x24 Trijicon for extreme close range hunting in low light just seemed odd, so I tried to explain my reasoning. I would think night hunting over snowy fields requires very different optics. You often have very little time to think or adjust in a pine thicket or swamp. Sometimes critters just appear out of nowhere 20 yards away then they're gone. My personal setup for the thick stuff is a 44 mag pistol with an Aimpoint scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2011 at 01:25
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jetwrnc.
No disrespect from this side of the pond eighter Smile
 
I know very well the exit pupil math.
But for me it is just that, a formula that explaines the physichs regarding scope and the human eye.
 
Of much more importance in my opinion is the quality of the glass, the coatings, the technical quality of the adjustments, contrast, color retention  and  the reticle.
 
I also understand that when we talk about low light hunting, we might have a little different approach and understanding what that is.
For me it is night hunting with a good moon shining.
 
For spotting deer on the fields at night I huse my binos (Zeiss Victory 10x56).
Then when I decide that a deer is shootable/legal, I use the scope on a lower setting to target the deer.
When I´m sure that I have the right deer in focus I usually cranck up a bit. Sometimes to 10 or even 12 if the light is good, and let the bullet fly.
x10 or 12 does not give me more "light", but ables me to se the details more clearly.
 
I´m with you regarding the # 4 reticle as very good, it is my favourite, as well as the importance of low setting in close thickets Thunbs Up
 
About dimming down the red dot; On both the Zeiss and the Meopta that can be done.
At the lowest setting one can hardly see the dot.
And I agree fully with ccocker, that to be able to adjust the red dot is a must. 
 
I do not mean to sound like preaching, but at the age of 66, I´m absolutely dependent on first class optics to be able to keep on hunting the way I do.
(the less exit pupil you know Smile)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2011 at 06:55
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 "I do not mean to sound like preaching, but at the age of 66, I´m absolutely dependent on first class optics to be able to keep on hunting the way I do."
 
  +1     Being 63 I can relate to that.  This past summer I upgraded from older to newer scopes.  My best being a Conquest with a Viper not far behind and 2 Weaver GS's.  With the newer lenses/coatings even the lower priced scopes offer a noticeable difference over older ones to the eyes of "seasoned" hunters like us.  Life is GOOD!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2011 at 17:35
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Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:


to the eyes of "seasoned" hunters like us.  Life is GOOD!


Don't you just mean old dudes.  Wink
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Thanks for the advice,I have been donig some reading and comparing so I think I like the zeiss conquest in 3 x 12 x 56.Does anybody have experince with this scope or will the higher grade zeiss be worth the extra money.
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Originally posted by seawolf seawolf wrote:

jetwrnc.
I also understand that when we talk about low light hunting, we might have a little different approach and understanding what that is.
For me it is night hunting with a good moon shining.
 
In America I suspect that some of our hunters do it with good moonshine.  Wink  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2011 at 21:13
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Seriously, seawolf, you are right.  The quality and twilight factor matter.  Why else do observatories use big lenses and high magnifications?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2011 at 13:31
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Originally posted by seawolf seawolf wrote:

I do a lot of low light hunting including moonlit nights over frost or snow cowered fields for our red deer.
 
I came a long way before I ended up with the Zeiss Victory 3-12x56 with the illuminated #40 reticle. This is in my humble opinion a perfect scope for said hunting.
The only thing against it is perhaps the price...
 
Another scope that stands out in regard to quality and value versus money, is the Meopta Meostar 3-12x56 with the illuminated reticle #4C.
Those are the two I have used and I can highly reccomend both of them.
If you are shooting at short distances in dense woods,  the lowest setting on 3 might be a bit to much though...
 
Also the Zeiss Victory 2,5-10x50 is a scope with top quality class for low light hunting.
Another good all round scope size is the 1,5-6x42 which is an old stand by for low light hunting here in Europe. Eighter a S&B, Zeiss or Swaro.
For a budget minded, the Nicon Monarc Gold in 1,5-6x42 is a good scope which I have used both on my 35 Whelen and on my 338 Winmag with good results.
 
With all respect, I can´t see what a x24 scope or an Aimpont has to do with low light hunting.
In my neck of woods a hunter with such a set up would be home and under the blankets by the time I get ready to start hunting with my Zeiss Victory or the Meopta Meostar.
 
 
 
 
This................
 
I have quite a few dollars put into high quality rifle scopes. I own Swaros, Kahles & Zeiss. While Swaros offer a bevy of options & great long range scopes like the 5-25, NOTHING compares to my Zeiss 3-12x56 for low light hunting. The only thing that may go against this scope is price. About 8 years ago a bought a Kahles 3-12x56 from SWFA, that scope is also a kick ass low light scope. It was 1200 bucks back then, worth every penny for low light hunting. And when I saw low light we can hunt 1 hour after official sun set here in SC.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2011 at 13:35
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Originally posted by olerebb olerebb wrote:

Thanks for the advice,I have been donig some reading and comparing so I think I like the zeiss conquest in 3 x 12 x 56.Does anybody have experince with this scope or will the higher grade zeiss be worth the extra money.
 
 
If your hunting laws require you can hunt 30 minutes before sunset & 30 minutes after sunset the Conquest 3-12x56 is all you'll need.
 
But to answer your question yes the high grade Zeiss Victory is worth the extra money. The Victory is a better glass plus it gets the finest coatings Zeiss makes.
 
If I could describe it to you in a nut shell it would be like comparing a Ferrari V8 vs a Ferrari V12. You're going to get more power & more top end speed with a V12. You would get more light transmission, better resolution & more sitting time with the Zeiss Victory.


Edited by Obi Wan Kenobi - January/09/2011 at 13:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2011 at 17:30
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Originally posted by Guided Bullet Guided Bullet wrote:

Seriously, seawolf, you are right.  The quality and twilight factor matter.  Why else do observatories use big lenses and high magnifications?


I'm thinking they use big lenses because of the high magnification.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2011 at 17:37
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Larger objective = better resolution.  Will you notice it - probably not.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2011 at 17:38
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Originally posted by olerebb olerebb wrote:

I hunt in pine thickets and hard wood swamps


This is why I didn't and don't recommend a 3-12x56 scope. This hunting environment is just begging for a 1x or 2x low end in a scope with great contrast, clarity and color. Just one hunter's opinion though. One of my hunting partners uses a 4-16x50.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 11:44
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Jetwrnch,  it sounds like you and I hunt in similar conditions.  I'm seriously considering a 1.5-6x42 or 2.5-10x50.  The thickly forested and swampy areas get real dark by the end of legal shooting hours.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 12:38
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Larger objective = better resolution.  Will you notice it - probably not.


This is the key.  I believe most will notice it during truly low light situations because the better resolution potential of a large objective is more important during the challenging light situations presented at/near dark.

The exit pupils may be similar with a 1-4X24 and a 3-12X56, but the big objective (especially one of the quality of the Zeiss) is going to resolve noticeably more detail.
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