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Scope for kids deer rifle

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 18:55
gremcat View Drop Down
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So I had a few questions regarding a scope for a kids short range deer rifle. I tried a couple different 4x and 2-7 VX2 Leupolds but settled on a 4x32 Zeiss Conquest for my sons 16" barreled encore with Low Warne rings. I also bought a VVA .22 barrel for it to practice this summer. The problem we are having is two fold. He shot  a 3 pointer at 75 yards and needed alot of help finding it in the scope ( close to dark blocked by trees) Then a few days later a nice 130 class came out 10 feet from the stand and he lost itin the scope. I have noticed he moves his head around instead of the gun. Fortunately he nailed a 4 pointer that same night so he was thrilled. We practiced good cheek weld all summer but I fear the 4x scop might be over powered for such short ranges. I am leaning to another scope either a 1.75-6 Leupold VX 3 or
other. My one question involves a term I have heard bounced around "scope box" Do some scopes have more forgiveness of less than optimal head position?  Should I be looking for a larger objective ( say 1.5-6x40 LPS or will I have the same forgiveness and FOV from a low power with a 32 mm objective? I have read some about scope design but haven't seen anywhere any points on side to side blackouts so to speak and what causes some scopes to be easier to get behind than others. I also noticed he gets set up behind my 6x42 VX3 faster than the Zeiss though atshort rangeI think 6x would just frustrate him. I was thinking of a set up similar to what Burris offers in there Mtac I believe with a red dot on top of a 1.5-6 but have no experience with red dots and wonder if slighly incorrect head position would affect  POI
I also don't want my son to get in the habit of raising his head of the stock. I intend to spend alot more time with him but just wantto set him up as best as I can for all the variables of hunting from a treestand. Oh and for the record he is 11 and small for his age. He has shot comfortably with a coach at 200 yds with a .22-250 all the way down to 50yards open sights. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 20:16
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Wow... I've dealt with this exact situation the past couple years. I built a .243 for my wife and kids and initially topped it with a 4-12 vortex viper because that's what I would do on a rifle in that caliber. Boy was I off. I then decided to put a fixed 4x weaver classic on it since the wife or kids never bothered to change magnification. Well. It took my daughter forever last year to find her doe in that scope. So more scope swapping ensued and I ended up with my 2-7 Vortex viper on it. That seemed to be the easiest scope for them to use as it offered a good fov at low power and more than enough mag as they rarely went above 4-5x with it. My son (10) took his first deer with it this year at 187yds 20 min before sunrise and never moved the mag off of 2. Either the 1.75-6 or a good 2-7 would serve your purposes well. A 32mm objective at that low of power will still offer a good fov. The larger 1.5-6 scopes thend to be on the heavy side and that is always an issue with my kids. smaller and lighter is preferable. As to the eye box. I have found that the more forgiving the eye box usually the larger the ocular lens, not always but in most cases. I initially tried to put a 3-12 Nikon Monarch on that .243 because of the forgiving eye box but it didn't work in med rings because it interfered with the bolt as the ocular is huge to accomadate the forgiving eye box. On a single shot like your Encore it may interfere with hammer operation. I would also rather have them develop a good cheek weld instead. I worked a lot with my son just raising the rifle and dry firing to ensure he had a good feel for head position prior to hunting with it. I think a high mounted red dot above a scope works fine on an AR but would probably not be so great on a hunting rifle. I think you are on the right track with something in the vicinity of 2-7. You may also want to look at the 2-7 Bushnell Elite. Unfortunately Vortex discontuded their 2-7 viper.

Edited by biggreen747 - December/11/2012 at 21:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 20:22
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I tried some Leupolds in 2-7 and they seemed pretty crictical of the eye box. Wish I could find a Zeiss in 2-8 configuration but discontinued. I see Leupold LPS in 1.5-6x40 but they are a little steep 700+
Also thinking about a nikon monarch 2-8 x36 or a discontinued Burris euro 1.5-6x40. I know Nikon had the same monarch gold in a 1.5-6x40 but also discontinued. I should have bought the 2-8 Kahles when I got the 3-10 from CDNN but now anything Kahles is in the 2000 range at least.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 20:24
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try vortex???

They make a nice 2-7 with a hunting reticle...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 20:29
biggreen747 View Drop Down
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I also have a 1.75-6 vx3 and find it to be kind of in the middle as far as the eye box. If I were choosing between the three available now I would go with a vx3 first, the Bushnell elite second, and the Nikon Monarch 3rd. I have all three models ( vx3 in 1.75-6) although not necassiarly in thatmag range and that is how I would rate them as far as quality.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 20:31
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I think a 2-7 would be a fine choice.

I bought my daughter an X-bolt Micro Midas in .243 and put a 2-8x42 scope on top of it. Fantastic setup for a kid (or dad).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 20:33
biggreen747 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

try vortex???

They make a nice 2-7 with a hunting reticle...



I think they have the Diamondback in 2-7 but I wasn't overly impressed with the dback I had. About the same quality as a Burris FFII, and definitely not on the same level at the Viper. I did have a 1.5-6 Burris Euro Diamond for awhile and that thing was a tank in all respects. A good scope but big and heavy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 20:40
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The extremely forgiving/easy to get behind eyebox is one of the reasons I like the Leopold vx-3's. - especially for "off hand" shots with no time to get set.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 20:41
biggreen747 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

I think a 2-7 would be a fine choice.

I bought my daughter an X-bolt Micro Midas in .243 and put a 2-8x42 scope on top of it. Fantastic setup for a kid (or dad).



Yeah... Everybody uses our little 243. One of the other kids hunting with us dropped his Win model 70 and broke the stock. He used our 243 to take his firs deer and when he handed it back he had a big grin on his face and said "that rifle is so cool". Ours has become my all purpose truck gun now.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 21:19
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Last summer I built a ruger scout,ported barrel,XS rail & a Minox Z5 1.5-8x32 scope for my 11 year old grandson,he took a 225lb boar at 135 yrd.He loves that scope & my son told me he only uses the mag up at 3 power.Minox makes a great product & with German glass. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 21:22
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SO the VX3 1.75 is the right way to go? I am leery of Vortex just don't know enough and like to stick with what I know.
Was thinking of the Burris xtr or MTR or whatever it is in the 1-4 or 1-6 illuminated but I didn't hear anything great about them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 21:29
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i have a 2x7 vortex viper, it sits on top of a .375H&H and ive killed deer 26 steps from my stand. as far as reliability goes, the viper line and up i have 100% confidence in, and even if they were to fail ( highly unlikely) vortex's cs dept is every bit as good as leupold's if not better. in the same breath if you can afford a vx-3 in the 1.75X6 its a viable choice too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 21:42
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I don't think you can go wrong with the VX3. The glass is much improved over the older VX-III which I always thought was very dim even during mid day. Leupold finally stepped up to the plate any got it right this time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 22:26
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Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope Red Triangle Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR24R
  • Matte
  • Red Triangle
  • 30mm
$844.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 22:32
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I have the 1-4 Accupoint Trijicon red post and had it out on the range today as the sun went down, in low light, and the group was sub-MOA at 100 yds. Mine is mounted in Low 30mm quick detachable LaRue rings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 04:49
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I wouldlove it if Trijicon had a circle instead of the triangle.I haveonly seen a few really nice Zeiss scopes with the Circle/Target dot. That was why Iwas looking at the Burris. What is everyone's take on the VX-R line from Leupold? Is a 20 mm objective going to be more critical of the eyebox than a 32mm? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 07:13
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Originally posted by gremcat gremcat wrote:

I tried some Leupolds in 2-7 and they seemed pretty crictical of the eye box. Wish I could find a Zeiss in 2-8 configuration but discontinued. I see Leupold LPS in 1.5-6x40 but they are a little steep 700+
Also thinking about a nikon monarch 2-8 x36 or a discontinued Burris euro 1.5-6x40. I know Nikon had the same monarch gold in a 1.5-6x40 but also discontinued. I should have bought the 2-8 Kahles when I got the 3-10 from CDNN but now anything Kahles is in the 2000 range at least.


Pony up the $ for a Zeiss Conquest Duralyt???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 07:49
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In the Accupoint line you are working off of either a post or a mil dot or #4 or plex but when you go to a compact ACOG  you can have that.
Trijicon Compact Acog Mount Trijicon Compact Acog Mount
Stock # - MM07F
  • For AR-15 / M-16 flattop (Picatinny) (.9")
$89.95 
Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope Red Ring & Dot Reticle Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA26SR10
  • Red Ring & Dot Reticle
  • Special Ring Short Housing
$892.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 07:52
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SWFA SS HD 1-4x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS HD 1-4x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD14X24D
  • Matte Black Finish
  • First Focal Plane Illuminated Donut (Circle/Mil-Scale)
  • 30mm Tube
  • .10 Mrad
  • HD Model
  • Exposed Turrets
$799.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 07:53
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US Optics 1.5-6x28 SN-4 30mm Riflescope US Optics 1.5-6x28 SN-4 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - USOSN4E
  • Matte Black Type III hard Anodizing
  • Dual Focal Plane Riflescope
  • Illuminated Horseshoe Reticle (2nd Focal Plane)
  • Illuminated Mil Scale Reticle (1st Focal Plane)
  • 30mm
  • Low Profile - Rapid Focus Eyepiece
  • Digital Push Button (Red) Illumination
  • US#1 1/10 MIL Slimline Elevation Knob
  • US#1 1/10 MIL Slimline Windage Knob
  • Fixed Parallax Control
$1,639.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 07:56
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Vortex 1-4x24 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope Vortex 1-4x24 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - PST43111
  • Matte
  • TMCQ MOA Reticle
  • 30mm
  • .50 MOA Adjustments
  • Capped Turrets
$479.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 10:21
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Actually, the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 hasn't been discontinued.  It still is being produced.  You just can't buy it here...... you can only buy it through one retailer.  If you don't know who that is, a call to Vortex will answer your ?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 12:03
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Originally posted by FireEMT5 FireEMT5 wrote:

Actually, the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 hasn't been discontinued.  It still is being produced.  You just can't buy it here...... you can only buy it through one retailer.  If you don't know who that is, a call to Vortex will answer your ?

actually it has......



Discontinued

6.5-20x44 PA V-Plex Wide 17.4 - 6.2' 3.1 - 3.3" Tall capped 30mm 14.4" 21 oz
2-7x32 V-Plex
Dead-Hold BDC
46.7 - 13.4' 3.7 - 4" Low capped 1-Inch 11.4" 13 oz

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 12:15
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by FireEMT5 FireEMT5 wrote:

Actually, the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 hasn't been discontinued.  It still is being produced.  You just can't buy it here...... you can only buy it through one retailer.  If you don't know who that is, a call to Vortex will answer your ?

actually it has......



Discontinued

6.5-20x44 PA V-Plex Wide 17.4 - 6.2' 3.1 - 3.3" Tall capped 30mm 14.4" 21 oz
2-7x32 V-Plex
Dead-Hold BDC
46.7 - 13.4' 3.7 - 4" Low capped 1-Inch 11.4" 13 oz

There is a company that had Vortex make them more.  They still have them for sale. They had to order X number of them to get them just like SWFA had to with the crossfire specials they had.
All that said, I do not advocate buying from anyone but SWFA,  their CS is the best and they allow us this forum to learn and have fun on.  I'd find something they offered that compared.

Edited by SVT_Tactical - December/12/2012 at 12:46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 12:38
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The retailer I'm thinking of does in fact still show them in stock.
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