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scope for AR (another thread)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 13:35
climberman View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I am looking for a scope for my AR.  The major use is going to be target shooting and coyote hunting.  I am interested in trying some 3-gun also.  Almost all shots (99%) will be inside of 300 yards.  A majority of those will also be inside of 200 yards.   I would like a BDC reticle for the longer shots because I do not want to take the time to dial in range.  It just isn’t practical where I hunt coyotes and a BDC seems like it would be accurate enough for my brand of target shooting.  A 1st focal plane reticle might be nice because it works for all magnifications and allows the reticle to change size which may be good so the tick marks don’t clutter up the view on the low end.  Ideally I’d like to stay as close to $300-$500 as possible for a scope not including the cost of a mount.  But I am willing to consider more money if there is a significant upgrade in performance.  $800 is out of the question.  I am pretty set on an SWFA S.S.A.L.T mount.

 

I have read many threads on this subject and have done some research on my own but it has left me with a few questions. 

 

1.        Magnification:  A 1-4x scope seems popular for 3-gun and some people like it for eastern coyotes.  I think a 1-4x scope may not have enough magnification for coyote hunting beyond 100 yards.  Is a 3-9x too much magnification for inside of 50 yards?  Many people swear by a 3x ACOG.  I am leaning 2-7x or 3-9x on this one.  Is it better to be limited to 3x for up close or 4x for far away? 

 

2.       Clarity of glass vs magnification.  I have heard that it is better to have quality glass than more magnification.  There has to be a functional limit though where the glass is “good enough” and low magnification limits control your aim.  For example a nicer 1x4 vs a cheaper 3x9?

 

3.        Focal Plane:  If most shots beyond 100 yards will be made using the maximum magnification, a second focal plane BDC reticle should work just fine.  But if shots are going to be taken on a different magnification, maybe a FFP reticle is the way to go.  I think I would prefer FFP on a 3-9x, but I would like an opinion on how useable a BDC is on second focal plane.  Is it worth the extra money?

 

Some considered options:  Which would you pick?

 

SWFA 3-9x42  $600

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P50716.aspx

Pros: 1st Focal Plane Great Reticle

Cons:  Expensive

 

Vortex Viper PST 1-4x $500

http://swfa.com/Vortex-1-4x24-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44569.aspx

Pros:  Great Recticle

Cons: low top end magnification

 

Zeiss 3-9x40 Demo B with Rapid Z $400

http://www.samplelist.com/Zeiss-3-9x40-Conquest-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-B-P67506.aspx

Pros:  Zeiss quality at good price point

Cons:  Reticle may be thin for snap shooting

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 13:55
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
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Chief Sackscratch

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Some other suggestions -
Vortex 2-8x32 Diamondback HP Rifle Scope Vortex 2-8x32 Diamondback HP Rifle Scope
Stock # - VORDBK10011
  • Dead Hold BDC Reticle
  • 1"
  • 1/4 MOA
$369.95 
Weaver 2-10x42 Super Slam Rifle Scope EBX Glass Etched Weaver 2-10x42 Super Slam Rifle Scope
Stock # - 800315
  • Matte
  • EBX Glass Etched
  • 1"
$454.95 
Add Weaver 2-10x42 Super Slam Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:

Weaver 1.5-6x24 Super Slam 30mm Rifle Scope Illuminated German #4 Weaver 1.5-6x24 Super Slam 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - 800375
  • Matte
  • Illuminated German #4
  • 30mm
  • First Focal Plane Reticle
$489.95 
Add Weaver 1.5-6x24 Super Slam 30mm Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:

 
 
 
Also plenty on the samplelist for a good buy -
 
SPL20104 Burris 1.5-6x40 Euro Diamond Rifle Scope DEMO-C
Click to view 200962, Matte, German 3P#4 E-Dot, 30mm
$399.95
SPL19734 Nikon 2-8x32 M223 Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view 8487, Matte, BDC 600, 1"
$229.95
 
 
If you're main goal is 300 yds then you can just set a 200 yds zero and hold slightly over with any reticle really.  Should have to "have" a bdc aiming point for reliable hits. 
 
I've been eyeing that Weaver Super Slam 1.5-6 for a while, I think it would be a great AR scope for all around use.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 14:43
BeltFed View Drop Down
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I'm going from the 3 gun side on your scope. You have some good options both SFP and FFP, unfortunately most are over your budget, but since you did give a little wiggle room I'm going to continue.

My first choice would be the 1-6x24 Razor. It's one of the top choices for 3 gunners and was designed with the assistance of Jerry Micilak (or however you spell his name). It's SFP, which I like in a low power scope (it's an issue with MY eyes, yours may be different) and it has a BDC reticle or a Mil dot reticle depending on which one you get. Anything over 1.5x is going to be hard to use at many close up 3 gun targets. The razor also has an adjustable illuminated reticle that is daylight bright.

My second choice would be the SWFA 1-6x24 (for you). It's FFP and has a reticle that would be fast to use on those close up targets, and with a little practice you could identify the mildots to use on those longer range targets (300+ yds.) and do so as fast as a BDC reticle.

My third choice (and what I use) is the IOR 1.5-8x26. It's SFP, has a BDC reticle and elevation turret. The reticle is illuminated and fast and easy to use, and it already has a cat tail for making fast magnification changes. The illumination isn't daylight bright, but why do you need illumination in bright daylight anyway.

http://swfa.com/Vortex-1-6x24-Razor-HD-Gen-II-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P55713.aspx

http://swfa.com/Vortex-1-6x24-Razor-HD-Gen-II-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P67733.aspx

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx

http://swfa.com/IOR-15-8x26-Trident-Tactical-35mm-Rifle-Scope-P53851.aspx


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 15:14
climberman View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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I appreciate the input BeltFed.  Those are out of the price range even though I wish they were not.  A 1x6 sounds perfect but the price on a 2x7 seems more palatable for my current situation.  Realistically, I will dabble with 3 gun instead of seriously compete, but the 1-4 pst still is in the running.  It is a good scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 10:34
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Resident Redneck

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I have one of these in a 3x model that is no longer made because the eye relief is shorter so it only mounts in a La Rue  RCO mount. I would have no problem selecting the fixed 2X scope for what you want to do.  The size and weight of the compact ACOG and the standard ACOG have a far better feel than a larger optic  on an AR.  If it was a bolt gun I would have less issue with selecting a larger higher magnification optic in the  2-7 or 3-9 range and the  Super Sniper 3-9 is one of my favorites.  You can use a mil dot based reticle like a BDC simply by running a balistic program for your bulet choice with output based in MIL which will tell you how much drop you will have for each mil dot  mark on the FFP scope.  With coyotes I would rather zero at 200 and hold a tad over or under based on how  far the critter is. Im sub moa at 300 yds with mine so I consider this the ultimate under 300 yd scope its idiot proof cant be on the wrong power  no exposed knobs to snag on things and adjust themself.
Trijicon 2x20 Compact Acog Rifle Scope Red Crosshair Trijicon 2x20 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA47R4
  • Red Crosshair
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
$992.80 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/19/2014 at 10:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 10:42
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Optics GrassHopper
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climberman, you should go take a look at the Leupold Mark AR Mod 1, 1.5-4 x 20 Illuminated TMR reticle with a SSALT mount & 30 rnd Magpul magazine deal that SWFA has going on for like $449.95 or something very close to that.

I have a couple of the 3x9 versions of the Mark AR scopes and the erectors have been very reliable. 
I have found them to be great value for my dollar.


Randy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 13:24
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Dark Lord of Optics

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If you can swing the SWFA SS 1-6x24, it will do everything you want and then some.

If you really want to stay in the $500 or under price range with a 1-4x or 1-6x scope, these two are the best options I have seen to date:



Both of these are quite good and 4x is enough for most things you would do.  The Vortex reticle is a bit better up close, while the CMR reticle is a bit better for holdovers and has more sophisticated ranging.

If you want a touch more magnification, Nikon's M-223 2-8x32 is worth a look.  It is a very nice little scope, but not ideal for 3-gun.  It wold work great on coyotes though.

I have generally been looking at a couple of Nikon's P and M series scopes and they are quite competent and a bit better than I expected.

ILya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 14:33
climberman View Drop Down
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What is the difference between the Leupold VX-R and the Leupold Mark AR Mod 1?  These seem to have very similar specifications except for the tube diameter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 14:54
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THe VX-R has the index matched lens coating where the mark AR has the Multi coat 4.  The VX-r coatings are higher quality.  So the glass will be a bit better. 

So basically the VXr has VX2 glass, the AR has VX1 glass.  I dare bet the mechanical parts quality levels are similar to the VX2 and VX1 as well. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 15:18
climberman View Drop Down
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This is my main gripe with marketing departments everywhere.  It can be hard to determine performance levels from the literature.  You basically have to see what costs more.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 15:43
climberman View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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So the consensus is the SWFA 3-9x42 is too much magnification on the bottom end and too much weight?  It previously was the front runner in my mind all things considered.  Thanks for all the replies!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 15:47
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The VX-R are great scopes.  I have the 3-9x patrol and really like it. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 19:56
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Originally posted by climberman climberman wrote:

So the consensus is the SWFA 3-9x42 is too much magnification on the bottom end and too much weight?  It previously was the front runner in my mind all things considered.  Thanks for all the replies!
I have two of these one with the mil dot one with the mil quad reticle. The mildot version would be my choice if I spent more time at 3X and the mil quad would be my choice if I spent more time at 9x
These were designed to be a designated marksman military grade combat optic to engage targets out to the maximum effective range of a 5.56mm rifle. They are not ideal for CQB fast action close range. They are useable from well under 100yds to well over 600 yds and are truely at their best in that 100 yd to 600 yd distance where much stuff happens. Coyotes move relatively fast and 2x is better than 3x for moving targets but I use the fixed 3x compact ACOG all the time just fine so 3x is low enough for coyotes.  If you will be shooting targets at 200 and 300 yds you would love the Super Sniper 3-9x42 it is the very best value for the money in a quality tactical scope in that moderate power range.  Do you need that for coyotes not really a good 2-7 or 1-4 will do nicely but a 3-9 can be used.
The 1-6 Super Sniper would be a good choice for you but its more expensive.
 
SPL19283 Schmidt & Bender 1.5-6x42 Zenith Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view 9417Z, Matte, #7, 30mm
$1,399.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 22:11
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[QUOTE=climberman] Ideally I’d like to stay as close to $300-$500 as possible for a scope not including the cost of a mount.  But I am willing to consider more money if there is a significant upgrade in performance.  $800 is out of the question.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2014 at 07:19
climberman View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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So I saw this on SWFA and got excited.  It seems like everything I wanted except for the BDC.  This has what looks like a wide duplex reticle.  Do y'all think the reticle is a problem for my intended use?  I have never seen one of these in person.



http://swfa.com/Zeiss-12-5x36-Conquest-Duralyt-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51693.aspx

Zeiss 1.2-5x36 Conquest Duralyt 30mm Rifle Scope

$559.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2014 at 18:50
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Here is a link to a great sight with lens covers and a mount for under $500.

http://swfa.com/Leupold-15-4x20-Mark-AR-MOD-1-Riflescope-Mount-Kit-P61996.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2014 at 10:18
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So I saved up and jumped on the tax day sale.  There is a new 1-4x SS scope in my hand right now.  I'm excited and can't wait to put this thing on my rifle.
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