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Scope for a M1A National Match in Sage EBR stock

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 03:33
guero View Drop Down
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I recently purchased a M1A National Match in a Sage EBR stock fitted with the Sage Cantilever scope mount and am needing to get good glass for it.
I am looking at the Leupold 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope and am wondering which reticle pattern I want.  Illuminated Mil-Dot or Illuminated Tactical Milling Reticle
What are the differences and which would be best for a beginning long range shooter?
I was also looking at the Leupold 6.5-20x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope, but am I correct in assuming that the lesser power would be optimal for my platform?
I will also need rings for this and was looking at the TPS TSR Scope Rings due to reviews of the quality and price.  Which height would I need for the scope I choose?
Thanks in advance

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 05:18
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I was further looking at these scopes and they are not ffp.  How important is that?  It looks like to get the scope in ffp I have to look at the ER series instead of the LR and then you dont have an illuminated reticle.  Is that something that is important to have?  Sorry for so many questions, but wanting to get this right the first time around.  I am open to any and all suggestions as to a totally different scope also.
Once again thanks in advance:
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 07:49
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Chief Sackscratch

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I'll suggest some scopes that will do you better than those Leupolds.  Leo's are typically not the best glass.  The newer VX6 line have shown some promise along with the VXR line as far as getting what you pay for but I think your money would be better spend on another company.  Here are some suggestions.
 
The first one I'd look at (the best glass of the list) -
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,299.95 
Add SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope to Cart
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Optional Accessories:



 

also with illumination -
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope Illuminated Mil Quad SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQI
  • Patented First Focal Plane Illuminated Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,499.95 
Add SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories :



 
 
 
Sightron 6-24x50 SIII 30mm Riflescope Sightron 6-24x50 SIII 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SIIISS624X50LRMOA
  • Matte
  • MOA-2
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • 1/4 MOA Tactical Knobs
$914.95 
or even lower power would suffice
Sightron 3.5-10x44 SIII 30mm Riflescope Sightron 3.5-10x44 SIII 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SIIISS3510X44LRIRMOA
  • Matte
  • Illuminated MOA-3
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • 1/4 MOA Tactical Knobs
$1,051.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 07:52
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Chief Sackscratch

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As far as FFP, it will help in dialing in your misses as well as ranging targets if you want to learn.  Very valuable tool in the field and very simple to use.  Make sure your turrets match your reticle (mil/mil) or (moa/moa) and that will also be of great value.  The SS 5-20 is a great scope, has been compared to scopes costing twice as much and held its own.  I think it would be a good fit.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 12:07
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What are you going to use this rifle for and what ranges are you intending to shoot it at? And what is your budget?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 15:05
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Seems quite a few people like the SS 5-20x50.  Ive seen it mentioned in several other threads and a couple times here.  Im thinking I may go with it as it seems to offer the most bang for my buck.  The US Optics is tempting but with the price point and options with the SS I'm thinking it may be the perfect first scope for this rifle. 
As far as what I will be shooting and ranges Prob paper and steel and at what ranges not sure.  Thats why I would like a good multipurpose scope good for all around use right out the gate.  Budget want a good quality scope and not break the bank the first time around.
Urimaginaryfrnd thanks for all the explaining.  It has helped to clarify lots of questions I had. 
Buying a scope there are so many options out there it becomes daunting very quickly to a beginer.
 
As far as the rings the Sage cantilever mount is a quick disconnect mount so the rings will be perm mounted to it.  Why would you recommend the Badger Ordnance Rings over the TPS TSR?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 15:21
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I have an SS 5-20x  I really like it, great glass, repeatable, solid adjustments and so far very durable.  I really have no complaints and only good things to say about it.  The whole SS line is a great value and excellent optics.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 19:00
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I am probably the contrarian here, but to me the SS 5-20x50 is too much scope for that rifle.  Something that tops out at 10x or thereabouts would be a better choice.

To that end, I think SWFA SS 3-9x42 with Mil-Quad reticle is a better fit for the M1A.  The magnification range is a better match and the scope can be mounted lower:

As far as the rings go, my choice for the moment would be Aadland rings:

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 20:08
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http://swfa.com/Vortex-4-16x50-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44561.aspx
This is the scope the guy I got The rifle from had on it, mounted with
He did offer to sell the scope rings and a Harris 6-9 swivel bipod for $850
I didnt know if that was what I wanted but it may be a good starting point and do see it was 1 of the recommended scopes above.  Any thought on that setup?
 
Also to koshkin wouldnt it be better to have upper magnification and not use it but have it if needed then to not have it al all?
Again thanks for all the info and time so far
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 21:21
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Originally posted by guero guero wrote:

http://swfa.com/Vortex-4-16x50-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44561.aspx
This is the scope the guy I got The rifle from had on it, mounted with
He did offer to sell the scope rings and a Harris 6-9 swivel bipod for $850
I didnt know if that was what I wanted but it may be a good starting point and do see it was 1 of the recommended scopes above.  Any thought on that setup?
 
Also to koshkin wouldnt it be better to have upper magnification and not use it but have it if needed then to not have it al all?
Again thanks for all the info and time so far

I agree with that thought process, but everyone has different needs.  MORE POWER has always been my battlecry, probably always will be.  I don't understand why I have to "settle" for less, on bottom end or top end, than what I want.  I want a 1-60x100.  I wouldn't need anything else... maybe...

What are you going to do with the rifle?  What are your requirements?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 21:41
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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buy a 10x ss and put the money you save in range time and QUALITY ammunition.
Saying that because you said BEGINNING long range shooter.
The M1A is tough on scopes, but if you break one of the SS units you have to post how you did it.
The M1A also has a near vertical learning curve for long accuracy.
Money in range and ammo+ smart buy in scope= good shooter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 21:46
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That's the truth the SS fixed are tough! Its nice not having to baby an optic!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 22:04
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Originally posted by guero guero wrote:

Seems quite a few people like the SS 5-20x50.  Ive seen it mentioned in several other threads and a couple times here.  Im thinking I may go with it as it seems to offer the most bang for my buck.  The US Optics is tempting but with the price point and options with the SS I'm thinking it may be the perfect first scope for this rifle. 
As far as what I will be shooting and ranges Prob paper and steel and at what ranges not sure.  Thats why I would like a good multipurpose scope good for all around use right out the gate.  Budget want a good quality scope and not break the bank the first time around.
Urimaginaryfrnd thanks for all the explaining.  It has helped to clarify lots of questions I had. 
Buying a scope there are so many options out there it becomes daunting very quickly to a beginer.
 
As far as the rings the Sage cantilever mount is a quick disconnect mount so the rings will be perm mounted to it.  Why would you recommend the Badger Ordnance Rings over the TPS TSR?

I would still like more clarification on what your intentions are.  Do intend to be competitive or are you shooting for yourself?  Is there a "max range" you have in mind or is it 25-1500???  A 10x scope will certainly get you out to 1000+... it's been done over and over.  I believe Mike was shooting 4in clays with the SS3-9 at 1200 when it first got his review.  However, there is no 'sin" in wanting more magnification for long ranges.  If you are just learning, a good fixed 10x will serve most of your needs on the range.  If you intend to hunt in the meantime, a variable will probably serve you better.  If you are just target shooting, get a target scope... SS5-20 will fit just about all your needs, but will not be speciallized for any.  That does not mean it won't be great for whatever you want, but if you have a specialized shooting requirement, find the scope that fits that requirement.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 22:30
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Nothing in particular that I will be doing or want to do.  With that said though I would like a scope that if I wanted to hunt I could or just target shoot it would work also.  As for range from what I have read it starts getting difficult past 300+.  I would like to be able to start at maybe 600ish and once I get the basics down gradually get higher.  With that being said I would like a scope that will grow with me and not have to keep buying new glass.  As stated earlier there are so many options out there that it is very daunting buying the right optic much more so then buying the firearm that is the platform.
Thanks for the info and time and if anyone has anything to add or comment on please do I welcome the info I am receiving.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 23:42
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Koshkin mentioned the Aadland rings that also would be a good choice. I do prefer the Badger Ordnance steel rings to all others in a fixed ring but I wont own another set of their Max 50 rings they are simply too heavy for words. I prefer the rings be steel but I could certainly live with a set of high quality Aluminum rings like these.
Aadland Triple Lug 30mm Rings Aadland Triple Lug 30mm Rings
Stock # - AAD30L
  • Matte
  • Low (0.83")
  • Aluminum
  • Three Lug
  • Picatinny
$129.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2012 at 23:58
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If you really want to buy once and be done with it you need to spend the kind of money on the optic that you spend on the rifle, but we both know you wont do that since you didnt go for the U.S. Optics scope.
Zeiss 3-12x56 Tactical Hensoldt Telescopic 34mm Sight Zeiss 3-12x56 Tactical Hensoldt Telescopic 34mm Sight
Stock # - ZEI10139087
  • Matte
  • Illuminated Mil-Dot
  • 34mm
  • Target Knobs
  • Side Focus
  • 0.1 MRAD
  • 1st Focal Plane Reticle
$3,209.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2012 at 00:32
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OK with all the comments on the M1A I do have a new Savage precision carbine with the accu trigger and accu stock in 308.  Would I be better off scoping up this and learning with it?  Truth be told after getting the M1A in the Sage stock I was really surprised at how heavy it is.  I figured that maybe that would be better for the recoil but from the comments it appears maybe not.  I am seeing this isnt such an easy sport to jump into with so many choices and decisions to be made.  I had originally purchased the savage to get into the sport and it was put on the back burner due to my indecisions.  Then I decided to get the M1A and looks like that wasnt a decision in the right direction.
Thanks again for the time and info
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2012 at 00:39
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Originally posted by guero guero wrote:

http://swfa.com/Vortex-4-16x50-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44561.aspx
This is the scope the guy I got The rifle from had on it, mounted with
He did offer to sell the scope rings and a Harris 6-9 swivel bipod for $850
I didnt know if that was what I wanted but it may be a good starting point and do see it was 1 of the recommended scopes above.  Any thought on that setup?
 
Also to koshkin wouldnt it be better to have upper magnification and not use it but have it if needed then to not have it al all?
Again thanks for all the info and time so far

For allround use, it is probably better to have a little lower magnification available on the low end, than a little higher on the high end.  Unless this is a dedicated long range gun, I think 3x is more important than 20x. 

In principle, having more magnification available is a good thing.  However, everything comes at a cost.  In this case, the cost is money, size/weight and ease of use.

You mentioned that you are new at this.  That tells me that you should be getting something fairly simple to operate.   With the 3-9s42 SS you get enough magnification for the practical range your rifle is capable of, sufficiently compact scope for low mounting, sufficiently light scope for minimal change in balance, 3x magnification for targets fairly close in and very simple operation.  You do not need to mess with side focus.  The only control you have is magnification (once eyepiece focus is set).  

On the other hand, you get an excellent reticle and matching turrets.  The turrets are repeatable and precise.  Oh, and the scope is $600.

Don't get me wrong, the 5-20x50 is a superb scope, but I do not think it is a good match for your setup.

As a matter of full disclosure, I have the following SWFA SS scopes on my guns: 3-9x42 with MilDot, 3-9x42 with MilQuad, 5-20x50HD, original 10x42 rear focus, 6x42, and 10x42HD.  1-6x24 is on order.

As you can see, I have some general familiarity with this product line.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2012 at 00:51
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Originally posted by guero guero wrote:

OK with all the comments on the M1A I do have a new Savage precision carbine with the accu trigger and accu stock in 308.  Would I be better off scoping up this and learning with it?  Truth be told after getting the M1A in the Sage stock I was really surprised at how heavy it is.  I figured that maybe that would be better for the recoil but from the comments it appears maybe not.  I am seeing this isnt such an easy sport to jump into with so many choices and decisions to be made.  I had originally purchased the savage to get into the sport and it was put on the back burner due to my indecisions.  Then I decided to get the M1A and looks like that wasnt a decision in the right direction.
Thanks again for the time and info

Both rifles are worth scoping, but learning is probably a little easier with the bolt gun.

The weight of your M1A does help felt recoil considerably.  However, it is a more complex gun, so there is more to worry about.

When you are learning, having the simplest effective setup is not a bad thing.

If you were originally planning to spend $1500 on a scope, get a 3-9x42 for the M1A and 10x42HD for the Savage.

Then go get some training.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2012 at 07:14
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Guero
Start with a bolt gun.  It's forgiving and an easy tool to master with proper instruction. ( youtube is not proper instruction btw).
I would go with a 10x scope, the 3x9 is nice but you might benefit by the little extra magnification.
The 3x9 was purpose build for a very specific market and in my opinion not the best learners tool.
 
When you think you can out shoot the savage consistantly, try a day with the M1A and you'll understand that you might yet have work to do.  Accuracy with a bolt gun can be tought in a day.  Starting with the M1A you may never learn, as it is a complex machine that will amplify every little error you thought you weren't making.
That said, once you have the basics, the old war horse is more accurate than your shooting buddings would ever have thought :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2012 at 07:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2012 at 19:48
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Thanks again guys for the advice and info.  I'm glad I mentioned the Savage.  I will start off with 1 of these I do need to get a single piece mount for it and rings any suggestions on that?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2012 at 07:20
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TPS is great quality and priced fair
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