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Scope Differences

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2004 at 12:33
LaSouthpaw View Drop Down
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I am considering getting a new scope to for either a 308 or 300 win that I plan on getting and ran across 2 models on the sample list. The rifle and scope will be used for long distance shooting and some hunting. Here are the 2 models:

Leupold 3.5-10x40 M1 Long Range Vari X-III - 52218, Matte finish, Duplex reticle, M1 Target Knobs, Long Range, Side Focus, new close out, 30mm tube, Multicoat 4 coatings

or

Leupold 3.5-10x40 M3 Long Range Vari X-III - 51182, Matte finish, Duplex reticle, M3 bullet drop cams, Long Range, Side Focus, new close out, 30mm tube, Multicoat 4 coatings

What are main differences? Is any one better than the other?

Thanks, Billy

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2004 at 13:03
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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Leupold 3.5-10x40 M1 Long Range Vari X-III - 52218, Matte finish, Duplex reticle, M1 Target Knobs, Long Range, Side Focus, new close out, 30mm tube, Multicoat 4 coatings

or

Leupold 3.5-10x40 M3 Long Range Vari X-III - 51182, Matte finish, Duplex reticle, M3 bullet drop cams, Long Range, Side Focus, new close out, 30mm tube, Multicoat 4 coatings

 

One is not better than other as they are pretty much the same scope with the only difference being the windage and elevation adjustments.  Me M1 has 1/4 moa click adjustment reinforced target style adjustments that are always exposed and ready to go.  The M3 has a standard windage adjustment and a bullet drop cam style elevation adjustment with 1 moa clicks.  It comes with cams for a .308 and .300 so you will be OK for either gun.  The advantage of the cam is that you can go from 100 yards to 1000 in one turn of the cam.  The advantage of the M1 is you can use it for any caliber or bullet weight and shoot tighter groups because of the finer adjustment.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2004 at 14:41
hangfire View Drop Down
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Sorry Chris, but I have a few minor corrections. [:o)] The M3 has no cam to adjust anything, as some trajectory compensation scopes do. It just has ranges marked on the elevation knob, that is all. It comes with several elevation knobs. each marked with ranges for a given long-range load type. Whatever knob you use, the elevation adjusts the same way, 1MOA at a time.



Also, one can shoot just as small groups with the M3 as the M1. The small groups will just fall in 1 MOA increments in the vertical, that is all. [:)]

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2004 at 15:32
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Elevation "dials" that are marked with specific yardage for a specific caliber / bullet weight are and have been referred to as "bullet drop cams" or BDC.  Others call them bullet drop calibrated elevation dials or something similar.  Technically the Leupold is a 1 moa per click knob that has yardages displayed.  A bullet drop cam is know by most to mean short style knob with specific yardage listed for a specific caliber and bullet weight. The Bushnell models that used to have the same type of adjustments referred to them as bullet drop cams in their catalog.  Its kinda of like using the term "light gathering".  Some people will correct you and say it is impossible for anything to "gather light", a scope transmits light.  But almost all manufacturers and the public revere to a scope's brightness as "light gathering".

 

By saying "more accurate" I mean that if you want to sight in at 500 yards a M3 would move 5 inches per click.  What if you are shooting a 4 inch target and hitting just below it, then one click would move you just above it.   The M1 has 1/4 moa that would allow you to move your scope 1 1/4" per click at 500 yards.  At 1,000 yards its 2.5" clicks for the M3 vs. 10" clicks on the M1.  Obviously your gun is going to shoot the same size groups with no matter what scope you have on it.  The ability to put those groups where you want them is why I say the M1 is a

'more accurate scope".

 

I also forgot to mention that the M3 has 1/2 moa windage.  The reason for the M3's coarse adjustments is to change yardages quickly with out the "dial" or "cam" having to go around more than one time.

 

Go to a 1,000 yard competition (or visit some of the sniper or target talk groups) and see how many shooters are using M1 knobs vs. M3 and ask them why?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/04/2004 at 19:41
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Thanks for the info guys!! It helps, but the decision is still hard.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2004 at 10:54
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Heads M3

 

Tails M1

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2004 at 12:39
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Chris - email sent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2004 at 21:58
hangfire View Drop Down
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Chris wrote:

Elevation "dials" that are marked with specific yardage for a specific caliber / bullet weight are and have been referred to as "bullet drop cams" or BDC. 

 

Go to a 1,000 yard competition (or visit some of the sniper or target talk groups) and see how many shooters are using M1 knobs vs. M3 and ask them why?



Leupold calls them Bullet Drop Compensation dials, not cams. Some older scopes incorporated cams that adjusted rangefinding stadia on reticles, the adjustments needed to be eccentric because they also adjusted for trajectories (which are non-linear). Leupold BDC dials are just labeled knobs for linear (straight line) adjustment. There is nothing eccentric in their adjustment of the reticle, so no cam is needed. Call it what you wish, but there's no cam in there- anywhere.

Competitors prefer M1's because they can fine-adjust group position, and they always shoot at known distances. Hunters and long-range snipers usually prefer the faster adjusting M3's. Which is better for you depends on your style of shooting.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2004 at 09:57
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I know...I know.

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