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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2006 at 14:46
Johnny5 View Drop Down
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I'm looking for a scope for my Encore muzzle loader.  I would like something from the 1-5x range.  My budget is $200 or less.  So far I'm considering the following:

Leupold 1-4x20 VX-I muzzle loader scope
Bushnell 1.5-4.5x32 Elite 3200 w/firefly
Burris 1.75-5x20 Fullfield II
Pentax Gameseeker 1.75-5x20
Thompson Center Hawken Hunter 1.5-5x32


Any thoughts on the ones I'm lloking at?  Is there any I missed which I should consider?

 

Edit - added Thompson Center scope to possibles list

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2006 at 20:14
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Hello Johnny5

 

Ou of the scopes listed I would take the elite 3200.

I would recommend to spend a little more and get  a

Eite 4200 or the signature select, you will love them.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2006 at 21:59
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Unfortunetly I can't go over $200.  The wife gave me a budget
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2006 at 23:51
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Thats OK  Johnny5 what you can get today for the same amount of money is

much better than just a few years ago in the optics world. The 3200 with the

Firefly is fine for under $200. Let us know how you do.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2006 at 01:54
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I'd go with a Fullfield II out of this bunch due to better glass than the rest and slightly longer eye relief than Elite 3200.

However for a muzzle loader I would more than likely go with simple fixed 4x scope.  A good choice would be a Burris Short mag.COmpact 4x20 which has lots of eye relief and decent opics.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2006 at 07:49
Johnny5 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I'd go with a Fullfield II out of this bunch due to better glass than the rest and slightly longer eye relief than Elite 3200.

However for a muzzle loader I would more than likely go with simple fixed 4x scope.  A good choice would be a Burris Short mag.COmpact 4x20 which has lots of eye relief and decent opics.

ILya

 

Is the Burris glass better than the Leupold?  I would like to stick with the variable to give me more options in the field.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2006 at 11:26
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Does SWFA carry Burris 1.75-5x20 Fullfield II?  I can't seem to find it on their website.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2006 at 16:04
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Koshkin is right.  Burris glass is clearly better than the Leupold VX-1.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2006 at 16:09
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Originally posted by Johnny5 Johnny5 wrote:

Does SWFA carry Burris 1.75-5x20 Fullfield II?  I can't seem to find it on their website.

 

http://www.riflescopes.com/search.asp?keywords=200088

 

There were three models available but two have been discontinued. This configuration is the only one available now.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2006 at 16:42
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Originally posted by Brady Brady wrote:

Originally posted by Johnny5 Johnny5 wrote:

Does SWFA carry Burris 1.75-5x20 Fullfield II?  I can't seem to find it on their website.

 

http://www.riflescopes.com/search.asp?keywords=200088

 

There were three models available but two have been discontinued. This configuration is the only one available now.



Why were they discontinued?  Is is because of quality or they just didn't sell well?  I was leaning towards the Burris, but his has me concerned.  What are your thoughts and recommendations.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2006 at 13:41
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I understand the wife issue but if there is any way you can get around the price issue just a little and buy a Nikon Omega BDC you would be far better off for having done so.

8401 Nikon 3-9x40 Omega Muzzleloader Riflescope Nikon 3-9x40 Omega Muzzleloader Riflescope
  • Matte
  • BDC 250
  • 1"
SWFA: $249.95
More Info... Buy Now

 

Rule #1 - What women don't know often wont hurt them.

 

 

when in doubt refer to rule #1

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2006 at 19:31
Johnny5 View Drop Down
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Somehow my wife has the ability to find out.  Anyway the Nikon is a 3-9 and I'm interested in a 1-5 or 1-7x scope.  Don't really need too much for a muzzle loader in PA.

For the Burris is there an advantage or disadvatage of having thr German P3#4 recticle over the Plex?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2006 at 22:02
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Any thoughts?  I'll probably be placing my order next week.  How much eye relief should I be looking for  with my Encore 50 cal muzzle loader?  I think I have it narrowed to the Bushnell 3200 and the Burris FF2.  Is the Bushnell optics Fully multi-coated?  Some websites say it is, while others say its only multi-coated.  Thanks again for the help 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2006 at 00:25
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I have to tell you that eye relief is not critical with a muzzleloader, I have a .50 cal that shoots like a .223, frankly I was expecting more from that first shot, To see what it was capable of, I used hornady great plains with the maximum Number of grains possible with a 209 primer. That didn't result in much more kick.

 

I think that the 3200 is multi-coated, and the 4200 is fully multi-coated. I am kind of dissappointed with the 3200 line, There is no loss of zero, audible adjustments, and the Fast Focus eyepeice, but the glass didn't win much with me. The adjustments on the 3200 are better than the FF2, but If you are zeroing once and relying on hold-overs from that point on, it won't matter. If that is your plan go with the FF2

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 11:14
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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did you consider this one ?

200123 Burris 2-7x35 Fullfield II Rifle Scope Burris 2-7x35 Fullfield II Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Ballistic Plex
  • 1"
SWFA: $160.95
More Info... Buy Now

And Anthony has a ".50 cal that kicks like a .223" yea right - 150 grains of tripple 7 or pyrodex or FFG is significant recoil. Due to the quick fall off of the trajectory (about ten inches low at 200 if sighted at 100) the Balistic Plex type reticle would be useful but not an ablolute must. The nikon omega does not have 5 inchs of eye relief for nothing, it was designed specifically for Omega and Encore using 250 gr sabbot with 150 grain powder charge. You can successfully use a fixed 1x  to hunt with but its a lot easier to use a 3-9 to evaluate which deer you want to shoot or dont want to shoot with more magnification. It could be important to know that the doe you thought you were shooting is really a spike.  There are some states that wont allow any magnification and a fixed 1x is it. 

Some of the fixed 6x scopes have longer eye relief:

849986 New Weaver 6x38 Classic K6 Series Rifle Scope New Weaver 6x38 Classic K6 Series Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Dual-X
  • 1"
  • Long Eye Relief
SWFA: $149.95
More Info... Buy Now

Pick the scope you like and good luck but some day you will be saying I wish I bought that Nikon Omega scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 12:59
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Johnny5

I had a Bushnell Elite 4200 on my .50 cal TC Omega SS thumbhole muzzleloader. I bought it brand new and used it last deer season. I recently sold it due to not having enough eye relief at least for me.... I use 130 gr of Pyrodex Pellets, and a 250 gr. TC Shockwave. Eye relief was critical on a hard kicker.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 18:12
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Thanks for the info.  I plan on using 100 grain of 777 pellets with a 270 gram Powerbelt platinum bullet.  I was leaning towards the Bushnell 1.5-4.5-32 3200 series with the firefly recticle.  It has 3.6 inches of constant eye relief, is that enough?  I would like to  keep the objective at or under 32mm so I won't have to remove the rear sight.  I'm using Leupold QD base with medium rings.  Which 4200 did you have?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 18:43
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I had the 4x16x40 4200.

We need to ask Chris or someone who knows for sure whether or not the Bushnell 3200 has a constant eye relief...that may make a difference. The 4200 didnt seem to to have it, at least to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 19:10
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


However for a muzzle loader I would more than likely go with simple fixed 4x scope.  A good choice would be a Burris Short mag.COmpact 4x20 which has lots of eye relief and decent opics.

ILya

 

I was thinking exactly the same thing koskin.  I just bought a T/C Black Diamond muzzle loader last month and will order the 4x Short Mag this month.  I will hand my old T/C Thunderhawk with the Weaver K2.5 down to my son.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 21:48
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Originally posted by Hogwild Hogwild wrote:

I had the 4x16x40 4200.

We need to ask Chris or someone who knows for sure whether or not the Bushnell 3200 has a constant eye relief...that may make a difference. The 4200 didnt seem to to have it, at least to me.


According to the Bushness website, your scope has 3.5" of constant eye relief.  The one I'm looking at has 3.6", since your wasn't enough, I doubt the extra .1" will make that much of a difference.  Is there any variable scope out there with a 1-7 mag. and less than 33mm object that has a decent eye relief?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2006 at 05:39
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Originally posted by Johnny5 Johnny5 wrote:

Is there any variable scope out there with a 1-7 mag. and less than 33mm object that has a decent eye relief?

 

The Weaver V7 2.5-7x32 has 3.5-4.5 inches of eye relief according to the Weaver website. 

 

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/849399/weaver_2.5-7x32_c lassic_v7_series_rifle_scope.htm

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2006 at 09:47
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Which brings us back to the 4.625 inches of eye relief of :

 

849986 New Weaver 6x38 Classic K6 Series Rifle Scope New Weaver 6x38 Classic K6 Series Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Dual-X
  • 1"
  • Long Eye Relief
SWFA: $149.95
More Info... Buy Now

Which is almost as much as the 5 inches of eye relief of:

8401 Nikon 3-9x40 Omega Muzzleloader Riflescope Nikon 3-9x40 Omega Muzzleloader Riflescope
  • Matte
  • BDC 250
  • 1"
SWFA: $249.95
More Info... Buy Now

And this one has 4 to 24 inches of eye relief:

200424 Burris 1x Short Mag Rifle Scope Burris 1x Short Mag Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Plex
  • 1"
SWFA: $185.95
More Info... Buy Now

PS the right scope is the Nikon Omega and taking off the iron sights keeps the front sight from snagging on things, so what if you ask her if it could be an early Christmas present surely you can work out some way to come up with $50 more, or just hunt open sights this year and get the scope next year you will have the cost or rings and base and sabots, powder, primers, powder measure, powder flask, patches, solvent, bore butter,  T starter, case, range time, targets, bullet puller, grease for the breach plug, pin to clean the flash hole, old toothbrush, palm saver and the list goes on --- tool box to carry all the crap ....

 

Tips: Run a wet patch down the barrel then a dry patch down the barrel after every shot.

        Seating the bullet and powder charge exactly the same way each time is a key to accuracy.

        If you get a dry patch and the ramrod stuck in the barrel pour a small amount of liquid solvent down the barrel.

        Always put a little grease on the threads inside the barrel and on the breech plug before screwing the plug in.

        When in doubt refer to rule #1           ( Rule#1 What women don't know often wont hurt them. )

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2006 at 11:08
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All the Burris Short Mag scopes have a lot of eye relief.  You may consider their 2-7x26 variable.  It works pretty well with glass similar to the Fullfield II line and is available with Ballistic Plex reticle.

ILya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2006 at 11:58
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Okay, my head is officially spinning now   I would really like to keep the iron sights for those states that do not allow scopes on muzzleloaders.  Thats why I got the Leupold QD base and rings.  Is five inches of eye relief that necessary?  The Thompson Hawken Hunter scopes for muzzle loaders only has 3" of eye relief.  Why would they sell scopes with such low eye relief if everyone is going to get smacked?  Thanks for all the help, keep it coming.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/01/2006 at 21:07
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The 2-7 ShortMag might work I'm not sure you should look at it before you buy it, but I know for absolute certainty that the 3-9 short mag SUCKS it is a horible design and has extremely critical eye relief focus issues that make it un- usable over about 6x in the field. Take the scope and hold it up and see how long it takes to find the exact point that it will allow you to look through it  - it looks like a white cloud - it is absolutely the worst scope I have ever tried to use.

No you dont have to have 5 inches of eye relief but one with 5 inches wont ever wack you in the eye. I do have a Burris 1x short mag that is a great scope and legal in states which do not allow magnification on muzzleloaders.  If you know you are going to hunt a state that doesnt allow magnification you can always put the iron sights back on and sight in with them. I know its not convenient but if you can use magnification the Nikon Omega is truly the best choice and I have tried lots of things gettin to that point  and that is what is on my Encore righ now. I do find that with the 24 inch barrel and the cross hairs at 100 yds the third circle down is the 200 yd point of impact.  If I was you I would wait until I knew for sure what I wanted or could afford what I wanted and use the iron sights this season sighted at 100 yds and figure about an 8 to 10 inch drop at 200 yds.

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