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Scope advice need for 6.8 AR15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 08:50
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Great forum guys!! Too much information to absorb at once!

First some back ground on the gun:
AR platform in 6.8 SPC 18in flat top. Uses: hunting, target, and maybe some friendly competition with friends out to 300yds. Hunting is for varmints, hogs, and some deer. Some of the hunting maybe at night or at least in low light conditions.

My scope experience:
Savage 10FP in .308 w/BSA 4-16 Illu. Mil-Dot
     Note: no problems with the scope but has had lite use.
Savage 110FP in .223 w/Timney Trigger & Bell & Carlson
     Duramaxx stock, Simmons 6-24x44 ProMag (if memory is right) scope. Note: no problems
     with the scope but has had lite use.

So with my new AR build, I am going to venture out a bit and get a little higher end scope.

These are some of the scopes that I am considering:
Leupold 6-18x40 AO Mark 2 T1
Nikon 4-16x42mm Monarch Mil-Dot
Nikon 5-20x44 Monarch BDC (draw back of 1/2 MOA)
Nikon 2.5-10x50 Monarch BDC 1/4 MOA
Nikon 6-24x50 Monarch BDC
Nikon 4-16x50 Monarch BDC
Nikon 4-16x42 Monarch BDC
Bushnell Elite 4200 6.5-24x50 Mil-Dot
Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 or 50 PA Mil-Dot
My goal is the best bang for the buck. My budget is up to 700.

Thanks in advance!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 09:55
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Originally posted by mikeintx mikeintx wrote:

AR platform in 6.8 SPC 18in flat top. Uses: hunting, target, and maybe some friendly competition with friends out to 300yds. Hunting is for varmints, hogs, and some deer. Some of the hunting maybe at night or at least in low light conditions.

So with my new AR build, I am going to venture out a bit and get a little higher end scope.

My goal is the best bang for the buck. My budget is up to 700.

Thanks in advance!
 
Welcome to The OT.
 
The BDC and Mil Dot reticles you mention may ceratinly be OK for general hunting, target and varmints, but not really ideal for low light or night hunting. 
Enter the German #4 reticle!! Big Grin
 
 
I had the Conquest in a 3.5-10x44mm on a hunting rifle and found it to be more than adequate, even with a ZPlex reticle.
Low magnification for close shots and 10x for 300 yds shots is more than enough.
 
If your stuck on a holdover type reticle, you may consider the Leupold V3 with a lit B&C reticle for night hunting.
 
Best of luck on your quest, Sir Knight!  Evil Black Rifle
   
 
 


Edited by cheaptrick - November/01/2009 at 09:55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 10:04
mikeintx View Drop Down
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Thanks Cheaptrick!   That is why I came here...to get input from the people that know!

I just was reading some reviews on the Hawke scopes. I liked the Sidewinder scopes kind of found of the 4-16 power range. Don't know anything about their software for their reticles though. I do however hate math!
 
I read somewhere that an illuminated reticle is a good thing for low light. Is that true??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 10:19
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Originally posted by mikeintx mikeintx wrote:

 
I read somewhere that an illuminated reticle is a good thing for low light. Is that true??
 
Well, yes and no. I'd never try to get by with a cheap scopes illuminated reticle, but the higher end scopes tend to have better reticles and can aid in night shooting.
 
The "Bad" ones usually are too bright even at the lowest setting, hindering the shooter and rendering them useless.
A BSA, NC Star or other ChiCom crap scopes lit reticle is as useless as tits on a boar, IMO.     


Edited by cheaptrick - November/01/2009 at 10:20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 10:46
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Based on your stated requirements and the fact you emphasize night hunting, I would recommend this scope...
http://swfa.com/Trijicon-3-9x40-Accu-Point-Rifle-Scope-P12872.aspx

But, since it is an AR, I would be inclined to buy this scope...
http://swfa.com/Trijicon-1-4x24-Accu-Point-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P12890.aspx

Judging by the scopes you've selected so far, I'm betting you will probably not like only 4X upper end magnification, but it's a good match for an AR.  This is a fantastic AR scope, with wide FOV, fast target acquisition, a magnification range that complements the AR's effective range well, and it's compact.  It isn't as good a choice as the 3-9X40 for the 300 yard target shooting requirement and it's more expensive than the 3-9X, which is why I recommended it second, but I think it is a better AR scope than the 3-9X.

Both of the above scopes have a great, totally foolproof reticle illumination system for low light or night hunting. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 10:54
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In the "best bang for your buck" category, it's hard to beat this scope, but it doesn't have illumination...
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P41044.aspx

Higher magnification scopes are not needed on ARs used for hunting and short range shooting, and a high magnification scope is actually a DISADVANTAGE on most ARs.  The reason is twofold: the low end magnification is a bit too high resulting in too narrow field of view for the fast target engagement that the AR gives you, and high magnification scopes are too bulky for this type of rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 11:05
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I've done a fair bit of hog hunting and recently gone to a 6.8 AR for the task, here are a few thoughts.

1.  Shoot as many different rounds as possible with your rifle.  My 6.8 is more particular than many guns I've owned/shot; it likes the lighter faster stuff more than the heavier slower stuff (which is the opposite of what I want it to be, but such is life.)

2.  For hog hunting, you really, REALLY want an illuminated reticle.  Hogs like the cover of darkness, be prepared.  My 6.8 wears a 2.5-10 Trijicon with post reticle.  The mil dot will give you good, quick range adjustments, but only the center dot is illuminated.

3.  For hogs, you really need to take a look at this thing:
http://swfa.com/Laser-Genetics-ND-3-Laser-Designator-P41090.aspx

It is a laser designator, or, maybe better described as a laser flashlight.  It projects a circle of light on the target up to 250 yards away, and it is a well defined circle, no bleed over on the edges, just green illumination on a defined target area.  It is better than night vision (except the expensive stuff, that is.)  For a hog gun, it is money well spent.


Lastly, be advised, hanging out on Optics Talk can stress your bank account and your marriage: there is much here to learn and there are many, many good products to buy.  Don't say we didn't warn you!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 11:12
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Rifledude and RC:
How "accurate" is the Trijicon lit post reticle for paper targets out to 300 yards?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 11:51
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If the rifle is zeroed at the range you're shooting, it is as accurate as any reticle, and in fact allows more precise aiming than most, if you aim with the very end of the sharp point of the triangle as you should.  It is certainly no less precise than a typical plex reticle.

For hunting, it is no worse than a typical plex for holdover, since the post is "clear" in the middle.  It certainly isn't as good as a multi-point reticle for longer range shooting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 12:32
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Thanks guys!  RC, I am already stressed trying to figure out what scope I want. 
 
I forgot to mention that I used to have another AR back in the day that just had the ole 1-4x scope attached to the handle. It was a cheap version but none the less it worked and I never had any issues with it.
 
I am pretty sure that I will see more bench time than anything with the rifle. I am hoping to do some hunting but I don't get to do much. My other guns that I have I generally shoot somewhere in the 4-6 power at 100 yds and group nice sub 1" to .5" groups all day long. So that is my experience there. I do have another AR in 223 but it is my CQB rifle and it has an EOTech on it.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that the bigger the Obj then the more light the scope gathered. Is that not true?  I ask that because I have been trying to find something in the 4-16x50 size. Thoughts?????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 12:46
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Originally posted by mikeintx mikeintx wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that the bigger the Obj then the more light the scope gathered. Is that not true?  I ask that because I have been trying to find something in the 4-16x50 size. Thoughts?????


In general, yes, but it all depends on the magnification used as to whether or not a big objective does anything for you.  At low to moderate magnifications, a large objective does absolutely nothing for you except add weight and bulk to the rifle.  As long as your scope's exit pupil is at least in the 5 - 7mm range and the scope's optics transmit light well, you don't need a larger objective.  Until you get to 8X or greater, an objective larger than 40mm doesn't provide a noticeable difference.  So, if you get a 1-4X, the 24mm objective is providing all the useful light transmission the scope is capable of delivering.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 12:58
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I like the Trijicons. Just can't rap my head around their price tags. $680 bucks for a 3-9x40 that doesn't even have target turrets. Guess I am going to have to go and take a look at some and maybe that will give me a better idea of that I want with what I need.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 13:18
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The draw of the Trijicon (in addition the glass, it is very good glass for the price) is the self-illuminated reticle.

As you've noticed, your EoTech is nothing but a paper weight until you turn it on (and assuming the battery isn't dead.)  The beauty of a Trijicon is that it is always one (at least for the first 11 years or so) and nothing needs to be done to be ready to shoot.  I like this for a hog gun, because encounters can be quick and require precision and speed, and the Trijicon does both.


Also, the 6.8 kinda drops off fast at 300 yards, so if you go with a BDC-type reticle, be sure to spend some time on the range to determine what ranges correspond with the drop points.


Good luck!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 13:41
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I did some checking and the place that I have the ability to buy from through my department does not have Trijicons.
 
So if I have to buy from any other store then my budget is like 300.
 
So the place that I can get scopes through my department has the following higher end brands:
Leupold
Burris
Bushnell
Zeiss
Weaver
Millett
Nikon
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 13:53
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I've said it before: Leupold is a well-priced scope, so long as you get military or LE discount.  If you can buy at LE discount prices, look at Leupold.

Bushnell 6500 is also a good scope, with a great zoom range.  Zeiss Conquest also makes a great scope.

I would avoid Millett, I hear they are having some issues.  And I have little experience with Nikon or Weaver, have owned both, but not the models you would be considering.

Were I in your shoes, I'd be looking at this - with LE discount, it'll be right around your max spend.

http://swfa.com/Leupold-25-8x36-Mark-4-MRT-30mm-Riflescope-P5936.aspx


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 14:27
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The place we do business with doesn't really have a LE discount per say that they advertise on anything but their LE guns. Their website doesn't have the Leupold you listed.  The do have the following:
 
Burris 2.5-10x50mm Euro Diamond Riflescope, 1/4 MOA, 3P #4 E-Dot Illuminated Reticle
        3-12x56mm Euro Diamond Riflescope, 1/4 MOA, 3P #4 E-Dot Illuminated Reticle
          3-9x40mm Burris Fullfield II LRS Riflescope, Illuminated Ballistic Plex Reticle
        3.5-10x50mm Burris Fullfield TAC30 Tactical Riflescope, Illuminated Ballistic Plex Reticle
          3.5-10x50mm Burris Fullfield 30 European Riflescope, Illum Ballistic Plex Reticle
        3-9x40mm Burris Fullfield TAC30 Tactical Riflescope, Illuminated Ballistic Plex Reticle
Bushnell 2.5-10x50mm Elite 4200 Riflescope, 1/4 MOA, Illuminated Reticle
Weaver 2.5-10x50mm Weaver Classic Extreme Riflescope, Illuminated Dual-X Reticle
 
Would you pick any of those?
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so, you have one of those?
that is VERY interesting

I really dig my 6.8 btw

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I do not have one of those, my military days are in the past, I am a civilian, no military discount for me  - so I don't buy Leupold.
But, were I in the need for a scope in the $700 range to do what Mike asks, that scope - if I could get it for $700 or so, would be on my list.

The 3-9SS beats it in every respect - except that the Leupold is illuminated and the SS is not.

Burris makes a decent scope, and the 6.8 doesn't need much eye relief - and having too much can be a pain.

Of that list, I'd do the 4200 or the Burris, whichever you like most.
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PM sent...thanks for all the advice RC!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2009 at 09:09
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1911man (Bill Wilson/Wilson Combat) has been using the Burris FF2 Euro 3-10x50 ill on his 6.8 and has reported good stuff
I hear they give a good LE discount

have you contacted Trijicon directly to see about a LE discount?

I run the 1-4 on my 6.8 and I like it a lot as I mainly use it for hog hunting and it's closer range and I use some illumniation at night


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My 6.8 started with a 1-4, but I moved to a 2.5-10 when I realized I could not, with a 4X, put a round precisely where I wanted it at ranges greater than 100 yards.  The problem was more the reticle I had than the zoom range, probably, but I enjoy the 10X for precision placement.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2009 at 10:46
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Mike,
Were I in your shoes, given the selection of scopes listed, I'd get the Burris Signature 1.5-6X40 Electro-Dot.
It is well within your budget, and with your discount, you will have enough left over to get the ND-3.  A buddy of mine has this scope along with the ND-3 on his AR, and it is a nice combination!  He has been slaughtering hogs at night with this rig pretty regularly!  The Electro-Dot reticle is nice and small and has good intensity adjustment so that it doesn't overpower your sight picture. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2009 at 12:06
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RD,
    That is a nice scope. I have never used a Burris or Bushnell. I have heard good things about both. The only concern I have about the 1.5-6 is it going to be enought to shoot out to 200 or 300 yds?  I know I can shoot at 100 all day long with it at 6.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2009 at 13:27
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Originally posted by mikeintx mikeintx wrote:

RD,
 The only concern I have about the 1.5-6 is it going to be enought to shoot out to 200 or 300 yds? 
 
For informal target shooting, absolutely.  It's not a benchrest scope, obviously, but it's a good match for an AR.  Given the type of shooting you do with an AR, I wouldn't want to sacrifice FOV on the low end for a few extra Xs on the high end.
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I mostly agree.

6X is good for most things, and is serviceable out to 300 yards.  The rifle is probably a 1MOA gun (maybe a little better) so it isn't going to be printing 1" groups at 300 yards - expectation is everything.

Ted knows Burris better than me, and he's killed a hog or 2 in his time.
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