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Scope adjustment

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 08:55
gablett View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Hello,

Just mounted the new Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x50 scope on my savage 111 trophy hunter XP in .25-06. Love the scope. I used Burris zee signature high rings. I got a laser bore sighter as well. When I got everything mounted, level, and tightened and look through the scope the elevation was almost dead on with the laser dot. I was looking at about 30 feet. Windage however left a lot to be desired. The dot was quite a ways left. I used the adjustment on the scope and it took a lot of adjustment. My question I guess is 3 fold.
1. Now POA = POI at 30 feet. But is it somehow out of alignment or something that at 100 yds its going to be even further left? As in barrel=| Scope=/ so the further you go the further out of alignment it gets.
2. I read something in the manual for the rings about offset inserts. Anyone have any experience with them and would that help?
3. Any other ideas as to maybe I did something wrong or some other way to solve this, or is that much adjustment needed sometimes?

Thanks for any help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 10:39
badkarma View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I purchased some because I had a misaligned rail.  The 30mm ones come with a standard insert and a 0.010" inch for each ring.

Are you using the standard insert or the 0.010"

There is a video on their website that explains everything: http://www.burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 13:27
gablett View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I used the standard inserts. 

I mean maybe I am over analyzing and it is well within normal to have to adjust that far, but it was a couple of complete turns of the adjustment knob to get it dead on.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 14:47
badkarma View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Couple turns does seem odd, not familiar with that scope.  Might be that the rail or mounts aren't perfectly straight with the muzzle (which is why I got them myself).

What I did was laser boresight at 40 yards (indoor range) with the scope on zero elev/windage, then use the .010" inserts to bring it in line.  Then when I got out to 100yards I made further adjustments to zero

You can rotate the inserts to get you where you need to be.  That will get you more scope adjustment on either side of zero. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 15:07
3_tens View Drop Down
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Left and right is the direction of the bullet impact. Not the direction of the crosshair.
Why does anyone waste money on the laser bore sight?
When you can take the bolt out and look down the tube. It is much more accurate most of the time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 15:23
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Dont worry about what your laser bore sighter is telling you and just take the rifle to the range, shoot it, zero it, and be happy. There is probably nothing wrong with your setup.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 16:35
gablett View Drop Down
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Yea seems to be consensus on the bore sighter. Which I had asked that before I spent all that money on it. It is the one that is in the shape of a case so I dunno if that is better. It fits right in the barrel nicely. Thanks for the calming words. I hope you guys are right. I ordered a torque wrench for the rings. Could it be that I over tightened them? Are the Burris insert like self centering? They are tough to get perfectly in the ring. Sorry for all the questions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 16:56
badkarma View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

Left and right is the direction of the bullet impact. Not the direction of the crosshair.
Why does anyone waste money on the laser bore sight?
When you can take the bolt out and look down the tube. It is much more accurate most of the time.


Because some of us have semi autos and don't have that option.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 17:32
Kickboxer View Drop Down
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On top of that, the laser boresighter is extremely accurate... used properly.  Semi-autos are still "worst case" for a lb.  It requires some "alignment" itself... to ensure there are no reflections off the bore (that will kill your accuracy in most cases).  There are several types, some "cartridge mounted".  Just because it seems to be mounted in a cartridge does not make it foolproof.  Proper alignment, ensuring that there are no reflections, is critical.  Some are "calibrated" for a certain distance from the barrel and the further away the boresight is attempted, the less precision there will be... though laser light does not "spread" as rapidly as "normal" light, it still does.  Most commercially available laser boresighters are good at 10-25 feet.  My best one is best used at 18 feet.  I have on a number of occasions been dead center at 100 yards after laser boresight.  Never have done that with an "eyeballed" boresight.  Parallax can also play a role... be careful.  
I love laser boresighters... (except for the setup time).  I must say that I HAVE used a laser pointer, in a pinch, but it is a dificult prospect to use a pointer.  I don't recommend it.  

Nothing I know of that provides precise measurement is "automatic".    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 18:16
badkarma View Drop Down
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Its good for getting you "close" I have a cheap one that fits in the muzzle. It was good enough to get me on paper at 100yards and then make adjustments. It was good enough to show that I had a misaligned rail. I would have spent more than what the boresighter cost in gas/range fees/ammo to get on paper without it, some rifle ranges have minimum target distances as well so if you are off like you may not have a clue where you are hitting without a spotter.

It's a great tool, even the cheap ones.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 20:06
Gil P. View Drop Down
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I ordered a torque wrench for the rings.

Just make sure that the torque wrench measures in inch pounds not foot pounds.
Out of curiosity, what wrench did you order?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2013 at 22:51
gablett View Drop Down
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I ordered the wheeler one made for scopes and it is in inch pounds.

So basically my bore sight laser may or may not be useful. I guess I'll read the packaging on the distance they recommend. How do it tell if its reflecting or inaccurate?

Still haven't heard from anyone if a few complete turns of the wind age adjustment screw is out of the ordinary or not. Could it be a misaligned rail? How do you tell? This is the first time I've mounted a scope if you can't tell so any help would be great.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2013 at 06:52
gablett View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

On top of that, the laser boresighter is extremely accurate... used properly.  Semi-autos are still "worst case" for a lb.  It requires some "alignment" itself... to ensure there are no reflections off the bore (that will kill your accuracy in most cases).  There are several types, some "cartridge mounted".  Just because it seems to be mounted in a cartridge does not make it foolproof.  Proper alignment, ensuring that there are no reflections, is critical.  Some are "calibrated" for a certain distance from the barrel and the further away the boresight is attempted, the less precision there will be... though laser light does not "spread" as rapidly as "normal" light, it still does.  Most commercially available laser boresighters are good at 10-25 feet.  My best one is best used at 18 feet.  I have on a number of occasions been dead center at 100 yards after laser boresight.  Never have done that with an "eyeballed" boresight.  Parallax can also play a role... be careful.  
I love laser boresighters... (except for the setup time).  I must say that I HAVE used a laser pointer, in a pinch, but it is a dificult prospect to use a pointer.  I don't recommend it.  

Nothing I know of that provides precise measurement is "automatic".    

I noticed you mentioned parallax. My scope has a fixed parallax @ 100 yards. And I also know that the other thing that effects that is not having you eye centered in the scope axis, that you can move your eye around the scope and the reticle appears to move but the gun doesnt move. I try to be very careful and shoot from the same position every time. Is this what you were referring to? Could using the bore sighter at such a close, much shorter than the 100 yards really affect it that much?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2013 at 07:45
badkarma View Drop Down
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It depends, it may not be a problem if you have a slightly misaligned rail. 

What is the largest number on your windage knob.  That tells you how many MOA one turn will put in, should be 4 clicks between each number (1/4 MOA)  Each click is 1/4" at 100yards, 1/2" at 200yards....etc

Now, if the scope has 70moa internal adjustment that means 35moa on either side of zero, so depending on how many moa the 2 full turns you mentioned tells you how much you are misaligned.

If each turn is 10moa, that means you had to adjust 20" at 100yards to bring it to a 100 yard zero.

That may not be a huge deal depending upon what you want to use it for.  Also double, triple check that the turret was on zero before you counted those two turns.

If it is indeed off, you can use the zee rings.  With the 010 inserts you can correct for that, watch the video I posted up earlier and it will explain everything.






Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2013 at 19:29
gablett View Drop Down
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Well I got some leupold mounts and rings since it came with cheap weaver style. Plus the leupold is wind age adjustable so if it is off I can use that to correct.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2013 at 07:20
gablett View Drop Down
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Well got it all mounted. Man twisting in that dove tail takes a lot of force! I like this mount and setup way more than the weavers it had. 

On to the windage of the scope and adjustments. I had no idea you could use a mirror to zero the scope. Learn something new every day. So I did that, it was way off. I dont honestly know if it came from the factory properly zeroed. SO I did that and mounted it up. Threw the laser in, made sure it was seated good and not reflecting off anything and the dot was low and left, but nowhere near as far as with the weaver bases. And with these Leupold STD bases, its windage adjustable, so I got it dead on without even touching the internal adjustments. So once its warm its off to the range to poke some holes. THanks for all the help and adivce.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2013 at 07:57
badkarma View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Glad you got it all fixed up, nice looking setup.
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