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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2008 at 16:58
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Hi
 
Suppose they write almost as much here as they do in USA aboth the Schools shootings.
Now they (media) said that there has been 11 shootings since 2002.
 
I am wondering if there has been any schoolshootings betwen 1970 and 1990.
I belive that those dumbasses are to stupid to make this up themself, and mostly of them are just copycats.
So without the media reports I am not so sure that there would be many or any school shottings.
Any facts about older shootings?
Any opinions?
 
Regards Technika
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2008 at 17:23
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regrettably they don't include the part about most schools not allowing teachers/students to carry-- which would stop most of it. fyi- an interesting stat in the usa -- you are 3 times more likely to shot as a school teacher than a cop.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 11:17
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

regrettably they don't include the part about most schools not allowing teachers/students to carry-- which would stop most of it. fyi- an interesting stat in the usa -- you are 3 times more likely to shot as a school teacher than a cop.
 
 That is sad, but not at all surprising. The blame lies on the hands of those who mandate gun-free school zones.  The lunatics who go on these shooting sprees invariably choose places to carry out thier crimes where the odds of resistance are the lowest. If teachers were REQUIRED to carry guns and train annually in the use of them, this crap would come to a grinding halt.
 Instead, we will be served with more "gun control"....Stare
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 11:29
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Regrettably, it seems that ALL of the shooters are suicidal anyway....I don't think that there is a deterrent in THEIR CASE.....

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 11:36
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

Regrettably, it seems that ALL of the shooters are suicidal anyway....I don't think that there is a deterrent in THEIR CASE.....

 
There probably isn't a deterant, but if you at least give the teachers in schools the power to shoot back, hopefully fewer people will die when someone does start shooting.  And there will be less incentive for those people to go in and start shooting, knowing that someone is going to shoot back.  If teachers had guns, I think you would see less of the school shootings happening, but it wouldn't go away entirely.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 11:43
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

Regrettably, it seems that ALL of the shooters are suicidal anyway....I don't think that there is a deterrent in THEIR CASE.....

 
The only deterrent is to engage them as soon as possible after their intent is known so they kill & injure as few people as possible.
 
All of these school shootings are in "gun free zones."  Really effective ordinance, huh?Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 11:44
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I understand what you're saying about being armed, absolutely, the teachers could END the massacre,----but I don't think they( the shooters)  are WORRIED ABOUT DYING....They WANT to die!! So, in this scenario, NOTHING will PREVENT this stuff!!
 
It's FRIGHTENING to note that Gun Control has not even crossed the lips of any Democrats who are running.........That's a no-no campaign talking point!  Very ominous.. they are beginning to learn that THAT ISSUE can cost them the throne.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 12:06
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

....I don't think that there is a deterrent in THEIR CASE.....

 
Oh yes there is, ban all guns.......................just ask Hillary
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 13:54
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 I'm not so sure that all of these goofballs really plan on killing themselves as they enter the building. It's hard to know what's going on in the coconut of such a person, but I wonder if some of them don't think they'll somehow get arrested and FINALLY get the help they need.  The media always makes them out to be the victim of a bullying or a bad home environment or whatever, so that may aid in this delusion.
 I think a lot of them  realize , about the time they've reloaded for the third time, the true horror and permanent nature of of what they have just done, and realize that they cannot live with the guilt of that knowledge. So, the last bullet perforates the coconut.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 15:43
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In europe it's very unusal so far with schoolshootings.

And I don't think the solution is armed teachers, it's maybe a part of it, but not the solution.
A pupil would be able to kill 10 people in a classroom before the teacher would be able to fire his gun.
 
I belive it's in the media, the more media writes and tells about it the more it happends.
So is there anyone knowing if there was schoolshootings prior to 1990?
 
Regards Technika
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 17:10
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Well, yes, there was the infamous 1966 University of Texas sniper who opened fire at random pedestrians and students right there in Austin, Texas. He was killed by police who went up to the top of the famous University Tower to get him.  But, school shootings were NOT COMMONPLACE like they are getting to be today!  I don't think there was another school shooting for decades, after the University of Texas sniper.  Suddenly, school massacres are becoming the first choice of attention-seeking maniacs. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 17:13
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when i was in high school which wasnt all that long ago every guy in the school had at least one rifle in the pickup with them in the parking lot and we never had any problems, then the year after i graduated you couldnt have a gun within 1000ft of school property.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 18:23
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Originally posted by www.technika.nu

And I don't think the solution is armed teachers, it's maybe a part of it, but not the solution.
A pupil would be able to kill 10 people in a classroom before the teacher would be able to fire his gun.


I agree and disagree with that.  If a person, teacher,student, whomever, was properly trained, and I am not talking about taking a ccw class or going through the police academy.  But have some actual real world tactics training and really new their stuff and were in the combat mindset then I doubt the shooter would be able to shoot more than 1 or 2 people before they were engaged. 

But therein lies the problem, to just have an average Joe who has taken one CCW class or went through the academy and thats it, then they are not really going to know what to do or how to handle it, and in the end it would probably end the same.  I train with cops all the time and a huge share of them it scares me to know that they are the ones who will be coming to protect me or my family.  Last summer I took 15 cops down to a 4 day class with me a Front Sight and it blew me away how flat out bad they were with their guns.  It is really kind of scary.  I have trained with numerous SWAT guys and even some of them are terrible shots and don't make good hits. 

So just sticking a teacher in a class room with a gun is not going to prevent or solve the problem, we need people who are willing to be the Sheep Dogs and willing to put in the time for training and a willingness to kill if it comes to that and willingness to do what has to be done and do it quick and precisely.  If a teacher is willing to spend 150+ hours a year training in marksmanship, tactics, and role playing scenarios and willing to kill then that teacher is going to be able to put the shooter down in a hurry, and they could save lives and save the day.   If they take a single CCW class and shoot a box of ammo once every 3 or 4 months and not for sure made up their mind before hand that they are willing to kill someone, I don't think they are going to be able to properly deal with the threat.  People like that just don't know what they don't know and when they reach that gun fight they are going to realize real quick how inadequate they are probably are not going to be willing or have the skills to take down the bad guy.

In the last 3 years, I have trained nearly 600 hours of handgun, rifle and tactics training with another 160 hours scheduled already for this year.  And still I don't feel like I am good enough to want to be in a fight like that.  Have I made up my mind that I would kill to protect me or my family?  Yes I have, but would I be willing to do it for other people, I still don't know.  That is a big responsibility to be on a teachers shoulders,  I don't even think many cops realize how big of a responsibility it is and how it is going to affect you once you pull that trigger.  So just handing a teacher a gun and sending them to a self defense class isn't going to solve the problem.  But we need school administrations and teachers who are willing to be the Sheep Dogs and willing to do what ever it takes to stop the threat.  I think we are going to have a hard time finding teachers who are up to the task or willing to do what is necessary.  They are teachers because they want to teach, not to be some in the school SWAT operator.

Don't mean to be a downer to the conversation, but gun fighting is a scary thing.  The first time in a class that I actually fought other real people I realized real quick I don't ever want to do this, almost for certain you are going to get shot and the chances of walking away from it are pretty slim. 

If we can find teachers that are willing to do these things then I say give them a gun and the training and let them have at it.  But if a teacher does not realize the responsibility of protecting all those kids and is not willing to put in the proper time in training then they may do more damage than good. 

Anyway, just a collection of my thoughts over the last couple of years and all these school shootings.

Edited by supertool73 - February/16/2008 at 18:29
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 21:30
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I'm only gonna say this, The schools are the parents now adays, and are the parents for entirely TOO many of our children. These children are starved for proper guidance, from people that love them, the do gooder teachers and counselors are not at all concerned with these children except as it pertains to them forwarding some type of agenda. the time when a parent was at home for the child and the time when families were there eating and bonding this type of thing was a rarity and generally came from a child from a dysfunctional family. The fact that finding a functional family today is a rarity is the SINGLE BIGGEST element driving this foolishness. Think about the reasons why there is no longer a parent in the house, there are many, not the least of which is TAXES. Both parents are working to make ends meet, both are too tired to be fit parents.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 22:29
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 I don't disagree with most of what you guys are saying, but I don't think you need 500 hours of training to defend a classroom full of kids, either. Some good solid basic safety and marksmanship training would go a long way, as long as it's coupled with a strong sense of duty and responsibility on the teacher's part. At any rate it's a far better solution than standing there crying helplessly as kids are being killed.
 Do I ever WANT to get in a gunfight? Of course not, unless the alternative is to passively await execution, in which case fighting back violently becomes something something to CRAVE.
 All of these recent incidents are just one more reason I work and struggle so my wife can home-school our children.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 01:20
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Cyborg, I agree with what you are saying, but the teachers shouldn't have to be the parents.  I grew up in a family where I was tough respect for others, right from wrong, and the discipline to go with it.  Kids these day (and I am not any older than some of them) aren't taught or shown that there are consequenses for their action.  And parent are so afraid of the government coming after them if they lay a hand on a child to discipline them, that they won't do anything.  What is to be expected when a child is never taught how to act or treat other people?  If the kids got a good spanking when they deserved it, I bet you won't see as much trouble in schools because the kids would know how to behave, and what would happen if they didn't.
 
Ronk, I have total respect and admiration for what you are doing.  My dad did the same thing, so my mom could stay home and teach us.  I am sure they are getting a better education anyway, same as I did. 
 
I am not saying you can't get a good education at a public school, but it is sure getting harder.
 
You can't and won't stop all the school shootings, but if you get the parents invovled the way they should be, give the teachers a way to defend themselves and the classroom, the violence would go down.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 01:34
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So you people belive I am wrong when I say the media is causing those shootings?

 
I am very confident that if there would have been so much written about schoolshootings 30 years ago there would have been more schoolshootings.
Same thing with gangrapings, rape, molestery, pyromaniacs etc, all kinds of "maniac crimes" are heavaly conducted by people who got influenced by media.
 
Look at the finnish guy who did the shooting, he had the colombine kids as his "housegods" and the same thing with the guy in Germany.
They are all influenced by each others, and the only way to break this trend is to stop writing about it.
 
Each year every country have a tremendous amount of suicides in the most specatular ways, but as the media knows that all writings aouth suicides causes more suicieds they write as little as possible.
 
And even though the society probably was better 30 years ago, there was still loads of unhappy unloved people who hated everybody, but they didint commit schoolshootings at the time, because they didint' think of the possibility.
 
Who much victims suffering is this media reporting really worth?
 
Regards Technika
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 06:11
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In THIS country ALL NEGATIVE publicity about GUNS is beaten to death by the media. And this year there has been an epidemic of shootings all over the place just several weeks apart! The Media ( being totally Liberal) is just doing its best to help the Anti-Gun Politicians destroy our right to keep and bear arms, by maximizing news coverage of tradgedies committed by crazy people.
You don't see the media reporting how many times a gun owner PREVENTED any crimes!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 06:14
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3 years ago we had a lot of armed robberies of money transportations, and at the time we only read about that they got away with it.
Noone get caught, noone dies, they just dissapear with loads of money.
Not very strange that it get followers.
 
I think it's time to realize that the media i the major problem when it comes to maniac actions.
 
Regards Technika
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 10:35
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 Oh, I don't disagree Technika, that the media influences these things to an enormous degree.  My problem with the media is that in these cases, they invariably spend more time trying to analyze what went wrong in the "poor PERPETRATOR's" life to cause him to "act out against an unjust society that treated him so badly, blah, blah, blah", than they do to hold him up as the piece of filth that he really is.
 By the way I DO disagree with your implication that armed teachers wouldn't be at all effective  in these scenarios. There's no logic in saying that the availability of a gun by a teacher or an adult student isn't a great equalizer. It only takes a couple seconds for a sheep to turn into a tiger when he really needs to.  Of course, Supertool is correct in saying that many cannot, but I think that many others would surprise you with a quick switch to the mindset necessary to fight back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 11:12
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Guns are not allowed in school zones, I'm sure the shooter was unaware
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 15:33
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Sure, and I have ocean front property for sale in nebraska too.  Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 17:31
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This is plain and simple terrorism,  You don't see these nuts trying to go into the city police department and try this, they know their chances for success would be nill, instead they prey on the helpless, unarmed people at the schools, because they know they are defenceless.  Then the media brings in the most powerfull weapon of all, the camera, which intern starts the vicious cycle all over.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 18:00
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 It's only going to keep happening, and getting worse, until we have another Beslan here in the U.S.  For you guys that suggest that media is at fault for reporting these incidents, what would you suggest? The next time somebody walks into a Kindergarden class and slaughters a dozen innocents, that the media report a story on Brittany Spears' latest fashion mistake instead?
 Don't get me wrong, Technika, I'm only  being facetious here, and I fully understand what you are saying. I just don't see a suppression of reporting as being even remotely possible, even if it were effective in stemming future attacks.
 Like it or not, the genie is already out of the bottle with the infamy of Beslan and Columbine, and we are NOT going to get him back into it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 23:17
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Ronk
As i understand you , you finds the number of victims for various maniac slaughters as a reasonable numbers to keep the rights to the media to earn their blood money?
It's really not that it's a serious free press who serves the democracy, it's a left wing commercial press who writes what they like and take no responsibility for it.
 
Another Beslan would not help, because those men and boys that do those crimes would still continiue.
 
Those school shottings are going to cost the second amendment one day.
 
Regards Technika
 
 
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