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Schmidt Bender scopes?????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 17:45
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by spreader spreader wrote:

As far as S&B quality people being here in US. I'm quite certain they either don't have anyone here or they don't have any authority over manufacturing at PR. Most of S&B employees in Germany probably don't even speak English anyway, so even if they did send someone to oversee production at PR in Virginia, I'm certain there is very little they can do about the process.

 

Who's name is on the scope?? Premier Reticle or Schmidt and Bender??

 

Maybe your right spreader, maybe I'm looking at this deal all wrong. 

Believe it or not, I'm actually a big fan of S&B products.

 

The one thing we all can agree on here. We all want our troops to get the best gear available to perform their duties and come home safely.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 17:47
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cheaptrick,

See for yourself:

http://www.premierreticles.com/M8541.htm

:)

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 17:52
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Spreader I suggest you look at the real good glass in F-15s F-22 and the pilots helmets is does not come from Germany or any outside country it is mad in the US by PPG & Dow-Corning. It is higher quality than you can buy for riflescopes & much more expensive.  Try pricing one of those old F-15 helments and a S&B will look like a real bargan. I feel our goverment needs to make a much bigger effort to buy American not just a wal-Mart buy American show.

 

Duce

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 17:55
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by spreader spreader wrote:

cheaptrick,

See for yourself:

http://www.premierreticles.com/M8541.htm

:)

 

Ah damn, I walked into that one, huh?? 

 

Excellent commentary from you my friend....I still say S&B "should" have more control over the QC of the scope and if there is some flaw, however minor, S&B and who ever should correct it.

Peoples lives are at risk.

 

I still got a hard on USO didn't get the contract in the first place....  

 

Good shooting!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 18:06
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Duce,

First of all, I don't really know which glass in particular you're talking about, but how do you know it's actually made by PPG & Dow-Corning? 
Could be a deal similar to PR/S&B if you know what I mean.

Second issue is - Leupold makes scopes in US, but they source the glass from outside US, most likely from Japan. Final product doesn't really compete with anything S&B has.

Third issue is - glass in helmets is one thing, optical glass used in scopes (I mean any scopes, be it riflescope, telescope, spotting scope) is a totally different game.

By the way, I'm sure you know that most of goods sold in WalMart are Made In China :)

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 18:37
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As far as glass goes, Schott is not the only maker in the world.  They are very good, but I do not think Ohara is a distant second.  Ohara makes good glass.  When I worked in microoptics, after a fair amount of screwing around with Schott and Ohara glass, I ended up going with Ohara.  For certain things, Schott may be better.  For others, Ohara is better.  Then there is Hoya which makes a lot of very nice glass used in photographic lenses.

Another good glass maker is Corning.  While their catalog of optical glass is perhaps less extensive than Schott and Ohara, it is worth noting that Leica sources their highly touted binocular and spotting scope glass from Corning.

ILya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 18:54
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Ilya,

Just as I said, Schott and Ohara have the most extensive selection. I didn't say they were the only ones. I said that Schott has the most extensive, "best", selection.
Hoya photo filters are okay. I prefer B+W though.

As far as Leica binocs/scopes are concerned - that's interesting information. This may explain why their spotting scopes aren't up to quality of Zeiss Diascope. Leica discontinued their spotting scopes right now. No spotting scopes are available at the moment. They're redesigning the whole line, new scopes supposed to come out in Spring/Summer 2008. Would be interesting to know which glass they use there and if they manage to beat Zeiss.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 19:01
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I do not think glass source is the reason for Leica spotting scope redesign.  The point I was trying to make is that top quality glass is available from several sources and the differentiator is usually what you do with that glass.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 19:03
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Ilya,

Sure. Schott however has the most resources available to come out with purpose built glass types and therefore it gives Zeiss an edge over any other scope maker that has to source glass types that are available on open market. Obviously this alone doesn't necessarily guarantee the best final product, that's why S&B won USMC contract and not the Zeiss :)




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 19:04
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I work for a very large international company that is the most prominent in the world in its particular market sector.  We have manufacturing facilities all over the world and we also outsource manufacturing to facilities all over the world and across the United States.  We have language barriers to deal with, and not just one language barrier, but literally dozens of languages.  We deal with it by hiring people that speak those particular languages.  It's just part of doing business around the world -- we either adapt or our competitors take market share from us; it's that simple.  Regardless of where our products are made or who makes it for us, it bears my company's name/logo and our engineers designed it, and as such, we are responsible for its quality.  The customer only sees our logo on the product, so if something is wrong, it is a poor reflection on us and only us in the customer's eyes.  Therefore, it is our responsibility to frequently audit our suppliers to make sure their work, their quality system, and their process capabilities meet our specs, and if they fail to meet our standards, they simply don't get our business. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 19:07
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You can specify a particular composition and if you are a big enough customer (you do not have to be a very big customer, but big enough), they will make a custom melt for you.  I was buying several different glass types and one of them was a custom melt made by Ohara that was not in their catalog.  Schott, if memory serves me right, was also more than willing to tweak the chemistry a little if needed.

I really do not think that glass sourcing provides much of an edge for Zeiss.

ILya

Originally posted by spreader spreader wrote:

Ilya,

Sure. Schott however has the most resources available to come out with purpose built glass types and therefore it gives Zeiss an edge over any other scope maker that has to source glass types that are available on open market. Obviously this alone doesn't necessarily guarantee the best final product, that's why S&B won USMC contract and not the Zeiss :)




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 19:24
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Ilya,

No argument regarding ordering custom types. The point I'm trying to make is that since Zeiss controls the whole process beginning to end, they're in better position to make special glass types (or use existing ones in the best manner) for final product. If say Leupold had to order a custom type, that would cost a lot more money and if at the end Leupold would discover they made a mistake in their calculations, they're stuck with what they got. Zeiss on the other hand has so much experience and knowledge doing that, that little experimentation and few failures along the way won't hurt them too much since they control the whole process.
For all others - it's a lot of wasted time and money.

S&B is a tiny company compared to Zeiss. Big factor in their survival is the fact that they have their own glass factory, that way, just like Zeiss, they have full control over entire process. If I recall correctly, S&B as a company has a total of fewer than 200 employees. Carl Zeiss group employs more than 11,000 people worldwide. So, for Zeiss, having Schott Glasswerke is like for BMW to have their own engine casting plant.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 19:29
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Fair enough.  Although I was under an impression that Schott was run as a separate company from Zeiss Optics.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2007 at 19:51
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Ilya,

Carl Zeiss Foundation owns Carl Zeiss AG and SCHOTT AG . SCHOTT AG Group had 16,839 employees worldwide as of September 30, 2006. Carl Zeiss Group over 11,000 on the same date.

In a sense, it's one big company with many semi-independent units. So, they're independent, but they always cooperate with each other when needed.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 16:35
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As an owner of 1 Zeiss, 3 S&Bs and a Steiner, I think we are getting into really subtle differences.
I love my S&Bs (4-16 PHs), they always work and appear to be built like a T-34 but with the precision  of an artificial heart, but the 3-9 Zeiss is lighter and the Steiner 2-8 a great rugged big game scope (albeit discontinued)
All that said, in real world North American hunting almost any $500 or more scope will serve our needs just fine.
Spend the big bucks on the binocs and spotting scope if you must prioritize as you'll spend a lot more time looking thru them. If you got the bucks then get that euro scope as you will be happy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/20/2007 at 09:39
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just a note but with the talk about size & resources have you looked at Dowcorning? I think they have adequate recources

 

Duce   

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.dowcorning.com:80/content/about/aboutlocn/default .asp

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