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S&B vs. USO

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2007 at 02:54
Manuel View Drop Down
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Scope will be mounted on a sako trg 22. .308

Which S&B scope most closely mirrors the one chosen by the USMC?

At this price range I highly doubt that the Optics are going to out-do the eachother by much much but of these choices which would you recommend?

USO ST10

USO SN3

S&B fixed 10 and variables most closely resembling USMC choice.

ALL will be gen II mildot
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2007 at 14:41
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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I think the USMC made a mistake in taking the S&B over the USO - and I can say that, I was a HOG in the USMC.

The SN3 is the way to go, no question: best service in the industry, best product I have used.  Be ready to wait awhile though.
I think S&B sells a version that is all but a dead-ringer for the USMC version - and it ain't fixed 10X.

I have faced the same choice and I went with USO.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2007 at 14:46
Manuel View Drop Down
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if you dont mind me asking rancid... what stick are you shooting and what sn3 variation did you get?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2007 at 23:21
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The only reason to choose USO is for an american to support the US industri.

In my opinion there is nothing that could make me pay  for an USO and I am not impressed at all.
 
There is probably a very good reason why snipers in the whole world are choosing SuB over for USO.
 
Regards Technika


Edited by www.technika.nu - December/19/2007 at 23:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2007 at 08:25
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Technikia - The sniper instructors here where I work dont like S&B and have not had very good customer service from them most of our guys Police and Military are using Leupold and I know its is not as good of glass but they are reliable and have great customer service.  I know George at GA Precision swears by USO and I would probably buy a USO before I would buy a S&B that said I'm using Leupold on my rifles. Who is behind the trigger is more important that which brand scope is riding on top and Police distances are relatively short range almost always under 100 yds where the Military targets are average 300 yds to 600 yds more often than not all well within the useable range of any of these optics. 
Manuel I know Chris has one of the Marine Corp scopes on the table in the break room when I dropped in on him a few months back - call him and see if he wants to sell it or can get you another one if that is what you want, its all personal choice I would perfer a 4-16x50 Heinsoldt to these but the new Leupold 6.5-20x50 FFP should be a great scope and the IOR 3-18x42 FFP should be awesome and what a great power range that would be.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2007 at 09:24
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I am using both Hensoldt and SuB, prefering Hensoldt as the optics are better, but I don' know about the mechanics(I have not had any problems with my Hensoldts).
Outside of USA USO i close to nonexisting and Leupold are not very popular either (in sniping)
 
My negativism with USO is from the one I have owned and there is nothing more than the price that impressed on me (to high to the quality)
 
Regards Technika
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2007 at 13:07
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Manuel,  this is the best I can do for now (why can I not upload an image on this new board?)
http://www.rancidkoolaid.com/images/cheek5.jpg

I will take a better shot soon and post it.  The rifle is a Rem 700 PSS in 300WM with a Karsten cheekpiece, Badger bolt knob, Badger mounts, Seekins rings, USO level bubble (a great aid for me - a natural canter-er) and an SN3  3.something -17.  This rifle can shoot 1/3 - 1/2 MOA out past 600 yards.  I thought about having more custom work done on it, but couldn't justify the expense.

The scope has the GAP reticule, EREK elevation, red illuminated reticule, side parallex adjustment, and no low-profile anything.  The glass is fantastic, the controls are exactly what I want, the adjustments are perfect, it is the best scope I have ever owned or shot - and it ain't my first USO.

Technika, I do understand.  Several years ago, USO's product was variable in quality and their Customer Service was down-right terrible - things have changed dramatically since then.  As consumers, we vote with our $$ and I understand reluctance to spend money with a company that burned you once.  I don't do business with Hilton Hotels or Leupold Scopes or AT&T for exactly the same reason: don't wanna serve or back your product, don't get my money.

At this moment, I can recommend USO without hesitation.  If you have questions, concerns or comments, pick up the phone and call the owner, I've done it: what other scope company offers that level of service and customer care?  I had an issue with my scope when I bought it (from the previous owner, not from USO.)  They took care of it immediately, had it back to me in no time, and went far beyond what I asked or anticipated.

The only issue with USO is the waiting game, it might take you 6 months to get one new.  And if you buy used, buy from someone you trust (not on Ebay) and call USO and check the serial number first.

I've used jsut about everything but S&B and I will buy USO again - I might buy S&B.  I've handled S&B, shot it, looked through it, and thought it nice, but not USO nice.  And I want Customer Service, especially at this price point.
  Everyone knows what opinions are like - and there is mine.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - December/20/2007 at 13:08
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2007 at 16:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2007 at 20:36
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why can't I do that, or am I just retarded?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2007 at 09:34
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

why can't I do that, or am I just retarded?
 
Whistling  Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2007 at 11:24
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I have problems uploading pics too. Matter of fact, I can't upload anything since the forum changed over...Dead
 
I just go to File URL: in the upper irght side of the page and place the web addy in there. Viola!


Edited by cheaptrick - December/29/2007 at 11:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2007 at 18:31
Focus View Drop Down
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OK you guys are way over my scope optics level but just from what I've heard and seen posted I thought the USO scope with american made owens corning glass lenses with the lead and arsenic impurities just couldn't compare with the cleaner euro glass. Maybe I've been told wrong but I thought the highest level lens grade glass simply made the best lenses. I'm not talking ruggedness, options, service, or anything else....just pure lens quality. Are the S&B lenses that inferior to the top level zeiss and swaro? It amazes me that USO can manufacture their lenses from US glass here in the US and exceed the best euro glass in the world. If thats the case I have certainly learned something on this post that I never heard before. I would like to see some real brightness and resolution tests done between USO and the top zeiss and swaro scopes I guess, maybe the S&B are not on the top level of euro scopes....

   Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 00:48
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FOcus
 
You don't hae to see testcharts.
Take a zeiss (divari V or hensoldt NOT older or american made) and compare it to an USO in the eventing, before the sun goes down and after.
Compare the brightness of the illumination, the feeling of the turrets and zoom ring.
If somebody have told me the USO was made in Russia I wouldnt be surprised, cause that is EXCACTLY the impression I got from the scope first time I looked on one.
 
Regards Technika
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 03:31
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The scope I ordered last week was the SN-3 1.8-10x37 Compact variable, with Metric EREK, Ergo, and MILGap lit green Reticle.

Here is a picture of it that I took at the factory in SoCal:

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 03:41
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Originally posted by www.technika.nu www.technika.nu wrote:

There is probably a very good reason why snipers in the whole world are choosing SuB over for USO.

 
Regards Technika
 
In my view, exactly the same reason they picked their current service pistol. POLITICS! Of course many European Nations are flying the wildly popular F-16, so I guess fair is fair, but personally I prefer the Colt 1911A1.
 
USO scope as proposed to HM Canadian Forces sitting on my target rifle:
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 04:21
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I bought a 3,2-17x56 with a lot of bells and whistles (second hand but never used) on (had originally costed 4200 dollar), I was so dissapointed by it that I let a friend buy it for 700 dollars.
"Russian" feeling at the worst.
Regards Technika
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 05:27
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Yeah, and my 3.2-17x44mm SN-3 with ERGO knob and MOA reticle was in a word.....SUPERB!!
 
Not to discount Technika's experience or any one elses, but I was totally satisfied with my USO and I let several other guys use this scope and they had the same opinion as me. Wonderful!!
 
When I first got the scope via a group buy at Sniper's Hide, the scope had a small amount of debrise @ the 3:00 position. I called USO and JBW, the president of USO, answered the phone.
He told me to send it in AFTER he asked me to and I quote...
"Beat the objective housing against something hard...like the edge of a desk or table"..... Stare 
I did as asked and he was yelling over the phone "Hit it harder!! HARDER!!"  "The debrise still there??" he asked.. "Yeah" I said.
"Send it in on our shipping account at Fed Ex, sorry for the trouble" he stated. 
Got it back about a week later and the rest was "optics zen"....Hippie 
 
Oh, as an aside....
Happy Birthday JBW3!!! USO's president's birthday is today...Happy%20Birthday 


Edited by cheaptrick - December/30/2007 at 05:28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 06:53
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I notice everyone is talking politics and ruggedness but no comments on how well the lens quality actually stands up against the best euro scopes.....except technika....I know they're built like a tank and have tons of features and options.....but I can't believe the lens quality is up there with the best....not with american glass and glass grinding and polishing, not to mention lens coatings.

   Focus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 07:05
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I think Technika must have a knock off USO every one I have looked through has be very clear high quality scope.
 
Duce Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 07:21
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We tested the SN-3 with a 5.5-22x 56mm Night Force NXS on a VERY hot day and the mirage was wicked. No low light testing was done that day. 
The group consensus was the USO had better clarity and resolution to US. There were 3 of us doing informal testing, so take that as you will. We had AF charts out to 300 yards.
The USO seemed to cut the mirage a little better than the NXS, but the NF is still a hell of a nice optic.
 
I thought the USO was optically equal to my old 3-12 S&B Variable Hunting model I had. Too close to call for me. That's all I got Dave.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 07:23
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We tested the SN-3 with a 5.5-22x 56mm Night Force NXS on a VERY hot day and the mirage was wicked. No low light testing was done that day. 
The group consensus was the USO had better clarity and resolution to US. There were 3 of us doing informal testing, so take that as you will. We had AF charts from 100 yards and out to 300 yards. Mirage was so bad that we did the charts just at 100 yards.
The USO seemed to cut the mirage a little better than the NXS, but the NF is still a hell of a nice optic.
 
I thought the USO was optically equal to my old 3-12 S&B Variable Hunting model I had. Too close to call for me. That's all I got Dave.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 07:38
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Thanks Mark, the nightforce is a LOW from Japan I believe so it should be with the trijicon and 4200 elite for lens quality.....least there abouts. I had always heard on optics forums that the S$B was a touch under the topline zeiss and swaro glass......perhaps that is true. Not trying to start a this vs that deal but am honestly interested in how good american lenses can be made...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 07:54
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I have heard more than one saying that USO lenses are asian made.
I don't know if it's true or not.
 
On the USO i had, was the frontthread so loose against the sunshield that it almost felt like you could remove it without screwing it off.
 
Regards Technika
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 07:58
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One of the big factors is the price of high quality optical glass it is over a thousand a pound for just the blank for high quality lens glass. It is more about how much you are willing to pay.
 
Duce Sad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2007 at 07:58
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Roger that, Focus.
 
The S&B and NF were all I had available for comparisons, so I can't honestly say how the USO would match up with the other Euros.
 
Maybe we could look through the archives over at Sniper's Hide to get a better testing sample?
 
 
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