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S&B vs. Nightforce

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2008 at 10:05
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Optics GrassHopper
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Appreciate that this is one of those 'whatever you prefer questions' but I am currently comparing the following:
 
- S&B PMII 5-25x56 Ill
- Nightforce NSX 8-32x56
 
Price difference (in the UK at least) is a good $1000 in favour of the Nightforce, and I have spoken to folks who will claim that in low-light conditions the Nightforce is better. I am tempted (of course!) by the S&B - but am more interested in performance rather than name/reputation. I am most likely to be using it for long range target and some hunting (varmint).
 
Anyone out there have any experience of comaparing the two, or owning either?
 
Thoughts?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2008 at 11:02
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Why would you pick the Nightforce 8-32x56 instead of the 5.5-22x56 which would be a similar power.  I would have to say buy the Nightforce and save yourself the thousand dollars but I really  think that is more scope than is really practical and I tend to prefer a 50mm and something that tops out around 14 to 16.
 
I thought gun ownership in the UK was severely limited what are your limitations, just curious?


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - July/20/2008 at 11:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2008 at 11:13
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Optics GrassHopper
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Hmmm  - thanks for your views - I am hearing a lot of that lately! There seems to be an underground Nightforce fan club here in the UK!
 
As for UK laws - if I ever meet you in a bar and have about 8 hours to spare I will tell you about the entire UK gun law debacle and you can sit there and laugh!
 
No restriction on optics (yet!) but no auto; semi-auto full bore guns and no handguns......
 
Sad eh?
 
Jason
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2008 at 16:53
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Zigliss,

You might want to look at the results of a test of 23 rifle scopes done in 2004, which includes a Nightforce NP 1, 3.5x15, 56 and two S&B rifle scopes, both 2.5x10, 56. Some of the headings are self-evident, as are the total scores.

See:http://www.zeiss.se/4125680F002BA25A/EmbedTitelIntern/Vapentidningen/$File/Vapentidningen.pdf

Tom

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2008 at 17:03
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I really like Nightforce (no suprise to the locals) so I would choose that route.  If you need the S&B it too is a great scope. 

Everything depends on need and want: if you want the S&B, get it.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2008 at 19:00
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Beyond glass quality and price difference, the two are quite different from a features standpoint.  “What you prefer” feature-wise will probably make the decision for you.

Likely the biggest one is FFP/SFP.  Some prefer one or the other so much that makes the decision right there.  The Nightforce will be SFP with a thin reticle (they will have FFP available at some point in the future).  The S&B will be FFP with thin or thick reticles available.

You mention low light conditions, I don’t know if you do anything at night as some over there do, but there are differences in the illumination systems (won’t touch the glass quality subject with a 10 foot pole).  The S&B will light only the center cross and maybe a couple of dots on the reticle depending upon which you get and brightness is easily controlled in the field.  With the NF the entire reticle lights up and brightness is not easily adjustable in the field.  But, it doesn’t require an extra knob hanging off the scope.

The S&B has the typical Euro-style fast focus eyepiece and power ring.  The entire eyepiece of the NF turns when changing power.  Some have preferences either way.

I don’t know if you’ll shoot far enough for this to matter, but the NF knobs are 5 Mils per turn, the various S&B knobs do more than twice that amount of adjustment per turn, both with .1 Mil (“cm”) clicks.  Here the Mil knobs cost extra on the NF, I don’t know if you’re figuring that into the price or not.  I can’t imaging you’re doing inches and MOA over there.... 

But if you are, NF has some really good MOA reticles available.  I don’t believe S&B has any.

Anyway, there are some of the differences—not good/bad or better/worse necessarily but differences—between the two that should give you a pretty good picture of “what you’d prefer.”

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2008 at 19:13
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Welcome, zigliss! 
 
I have 2 NF scopes and 1 S&B.  Although my S&B is a 1.5-6X42 and my NF scopes are 3.5-15X50 and 8-32X56, IMO the S&B spanks NF at the same magnifications in terms of low light performance as well as overall image quality.  Admittedly, my view is derived from a very limited sampling, but I seriously doubt a comparison with the PMII would change my opinion.  NF is a very nice scope mechanically and optically with an incredible selection of reticles, but its optics isn't its strongest feature IMO.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 04:15
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Optics GrassHopper
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Jon A & Ted - thanks you make some helpful points.
 
This may be a little like comparing a Dodge Viper and A BMW M-sport! Both different things to different people and depends what you want/preferences. Whilst S&B stand out for optics and I have seen them before it was only recently that I handled a Nightforce. I was a lot more impressed than I thought I would be. An at $1000 saving versus the S&B I am wondering whether it may worth building a bit of long range experience with it and then propoerly comparing to the S&B at a later stage.
 
Tom's link to a German test is also helpful. Anyone with direct experience of comparable Zeiss or Swarovski?
 
- Swarovski PVI-2 High Grid 6 - 24 x 50 
- Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x56 IR
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 09:48
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Optics GrassHopper
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I am waiting to hear some feed back on this scope.....it might be worth considering in your case.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 10:43
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http://shop.livioptik.com/osc/index.php?cPath=3_73_82  
 
Hensoldt the Tactical Zeiss Thunbs%20Up
Pick of the Litter:    Hensoldt 4-16x56  Oh Yea SoldI just wish they were available here.
well thats the one I would buy if it was available to me I really like the 4-16 range scopes better than the higher power ones but mine have to be gunfight optics.
 
As for Kahles why not look at the new one?
KLS10383 New%20Kahles%204.5-18x50%20Helia%20K418%2030mm%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 New Kahles 4.5-18x50 Helia K418 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Plex
  • 30mm
  • Target Turrets
  • 2nd Focal Plane
SWFA: $1,499.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
 
IOR should also be a consideration
301848 IOR%203-18x42%20Tactical%2035mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 IOR 3-18x42 Tactical 35mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • MP-8
  • 35mm
  • Side Focus
  • First Focal Plane Reticle
  • Free IOR 35mm Medium Rings w/ Purchase
SWFA: $1,494.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 10:54
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Optics GrassHopper
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Hensoldt is $$$.........but, my guess if they were offered for sale in this country...they would sell
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 11:02
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Now I've used this analogy before with some success so we will add to it: 
 
40mm objective ="B" cup
50mm objective ="C" cup
56mm objective ="D" cup
72mm....... well you get the idea they are all good but as they get larger they may be interesting but can become a little harder to handle. 
 
so I guess that makes
3-9   like 6 inches
4-16 like 8 inches
6-20 like 10 inches  (thats just more likely to get you into trouble than not there porn star)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 11:17
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Now I've used this analogy before with some success so we will add to it: 
 
40mm objective ="B" cup
50mm objective ="C" cup
56mm objective ="D" cup
72mm....... well you get the idea they are all good but as they get larger they may be interesting but can become a little harder to handle. 
 
so I guess that makes
3-9   like 6 inches
4-16 like 8 inches
6-20 like 10 inches  (thats just more likely to get you into trouble than not there porn star)


I like it!!!  Big%20Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 11:20
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Optics GrassHopper
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Wow - feeling a bit down now - guess I should be looking at a 1.25 - 4 variable thenWink
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