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SB or Zeiss

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 11:47
ahuebel View Drop Down
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These will really come down to personal preference and things like customer service, but if you guys were to choose between a SB 3-12x50 or a Zeiss victory 2.5-10x50, which would you select and why? I doubt there would be a noticable difference in performance but if someone feels there is, let me know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 12:54
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Well gee... a question right down my alley. I own two S&B (3-12x42 & 3-12x50 PMII) and the new Zeiss 2.5-10x50 Victory,

 

The turrets are more positive and substantial on the S&Bs.  The tubes are equal in construct; in my opinion the the coating is nicer on the Zeiss with power ring easier to use on the S&B.  Between 50mm Zeiss and S&B I find the detectable brightness equal with the new Zeiss resolution edging out better.

 

These are fantastics scopes and without knowing what the use is;  I would break it down to:

 

If I were wanting a Mil Dot Reticle I would go S&B.  -  Precision Hunter

 

If I were wanting a hunting and "meat" rifle I would go Zeiss. 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 12:56
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Well Said
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 13:14
ahuebel View Drop Down
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Interesting. I was leaning toward the SB just from general impression. This is a hunting rifle and I will not be getting an illuminated reticle. I'm leaning toward a #9. Thanks a bunch for your insight.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 13:23
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Ahuebel -

 

Have you considered the Swaro Z6?  Having looked through that as well as the high end Zeiss, S&B and the Leupold VX-7, I think the Z6 may be the best optically of them all.

 

ND2000

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 13:33
ahuebel View Drop Down
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Actually I had not. When I was initially evaluating scopes and guns the Z6 wasn't out. For some reason I thought they were fixed range. Anyway....that throws a kink in things. So is it noticeably different optically? Which is the most durable? The z6 doesn't look tremendously sturdy (from the pictures).

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 14:32
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Ahuebel -

 

The problem is I have never been able to look through them ALL side by side at the same time.  It's one of these deals where you probably don't notice much of a difference UNLESS you view side-by-side.  I can tell you the Swaro outperformed the Zeiss and Leupold to me. 

 

Personally, I think the S&B would be the most durable.  Seems built like a tank and certainly has the weight to support that theory.  The weight of 20+ oz. or so is my biggest concern with the S&B, although the glass is almost unbeatable. :-)

 

ND2000

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 16:31
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ahuebel,

Although I don't own the 3-12X50 S&B, I do have the Zeiss Diavari Victory V 2.5-10X50.  I also own a S&B 1.5-6X42.  In fact, my S&B just so happens to have the #9 reticle as well, though with the Flashdot illumination.  Even though those 2 scopes aren't comparable config wise, set at the same magnifications, It's really splitting hairs to say which is superior optically.  To be certain, they are both pretty well as good as it gets.  To my eyes, between the two, I think the S&B is ever so slightly superior in low light performance.  When comparing edge to edge sharpness, clarity, color, etc., I'd call them dead even.  Given similar magnification and objective size, Zeiss will always be several ounces lighter, so I give it an edge in weight.  I'm pretty sure the Zeiss has a larger FOV as well.  I like the adjustments on the S&B much better than the Zeiss, plus the S&B has the very handy reticle position indicator at the top of the knobs, so to me the S&B has a definite edge in adjustments.  The Zeiss, however, has the edge in W/E adjustment range over the S&B.  It also uses the same method of zeroing the adjustment indicators as Swaro uses, which I really like.  With the S&B, you loosen a small screw on the turret and rotate the barrel to zero the indicators.  A minor thing, but nevertheless I thought it worth mentioning.  Then, there's the infamous Zeiss plastic turret caps... I realize from a practical standpoint, it isn't a big deal, and the plastic caps are probably every bit as durable as the S&B's aluminum caps and will most likely last several lifetimes.  Still, I just don't like the idea of having plastic caps on such an expensive scope, for no other reason than it just seems like a cheap feature on an otherwise premium quality scope.

 

Aesthetically, I like the way the S&B looks better than the Zeiss, but that's a personal thing.  I also like the "snug but still smooth" feel of the power ring and eyepiece adjustment of the S&B a little better than the Zeiss.  Quality just has a certain "feel" that's hard to describe, but I like the overall feel of the S&B's adjustments slightly better than the Zeiss.  I think it's easier to see the etched lettering on the S&B in low light when you're adjusting the power ring. 

 

These are very minor things overall, but taken together plus the fact that on the upper end, you have 2X extra with the S&B, yet only lose .5X on the low end, I would personally choose the 3-12X50 S&B over the 2.5-10X50 Zeiss, despite the S&B's minor shortcomings.  I do like the #9 reticle because the thin lines are very thin, yet they are bracketed by pretty thick posts at 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00, much like a #4 style reticle.  The thin lines on the #9 are thinner than those on the #7.

 

BUT, the decision between the 2 would be so close for me that if I were trying to keep overall rifle weight to a minimum, I might choose the Zeiss simply because it's 6oz. lighter.  Although I'm sure the Swaro Z6 is phenomenal as well, I haven't seen one outside of a building, so have no basis of comparison to the other two scopes.  I do have a Swaro PH series scope, and although it is excellent in every respect, I think it's ever so slightly behind the S&B and Zeiss optically.  Regardless, I think you'll absolutely love whichever scope you decide on, as you're choosing from among the finest scopes on the planet...as reflected in their price tags!



Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:04
ahuebel View Drop Down
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Yea, it does seem weird paying more for the scope than the gun. I think I'll go with the SB. I am contemplating getting a synthetic stock which would compensate for the heavier scope.

 

Since I am a newbie at this, I need to ask the question. Do I need to buy mounting rings or any other ancillary items to attach the scope to the rifle? I will probably buy the scope first because I can order it online. I want to hold the gun in my hand before I make a final decision.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:08
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rings and bases both unless you buy a ruger
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:12
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Yes and if they are not good rings & mounts your scope will be a waste as far as accuracy It is very important that everything works well togather. The mounting the scope is equally important if you are not familiar with the correct way to mount and zero the scope by all means find someone that is able to or you will blow the accuracy.

 

Duce 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:15
ahuebel View Drop Down
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Ok thanks for the advice!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:15
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cause now you gotta think about lapping the rings, proper heights scope mounted sqaure and level etc
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:17
ahuebel View Drop Down
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I noticed SB doesn't make mounts or perhaps SWFA just doesnt sell them? Any recommendations on that?

Edited by ahuebel
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:19
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as far as i know s&b doesnt make anything but scopes
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:30
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As far as brand and type of mounts, it's a personal preference thing, but I've had great luck with Talley, Warne, Conetrol, S&K, Leupold, and Burris Signature mounts & rings.  The better tactical style mounts are certainly excellent, well made mounts as well, but to me, they are more obtrusive on a hunting rifle than the others, which are all plenty strong enough.

 

The Talley and Warne are vertically split rings, which have a distinctive look, and are both superbly made, yet they are a tad bit more difficult to install than some others.  They are both availabe in quick-detach versions with side levers, if you're a fan of that feature.  The Conetrol and S&K are the sleekest, cleanest looking, best finished mounting systems available, and to my eyes, look nicer than anything else, but they can also be more expensive and are a little trickier to install correctly.  Once installed, though, they are bulletproof and self-align well without need for lapping.  The Burris Signature is probably the most user-friendly, because they are easy to install, and the radiused inserts are self-aligning and don't stress the scope at all.  Leupold offers the largest variety of rings / bases of most anyone else, and they are good quality overall.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:36
ahuebel View Drop Down
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Do the mounts at all depend on the gun or do these mounts fit on all mainstream rifles? I would prefer to just buy everything from the same place but it appears SWFA doesnt sell conetrol or s&k unless I missed it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:40
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action length on your rifle is one factor and some manufactures are set up diff than  others certain styles are for certain rifles like the rugers come with built in bases so all you need is rings which they also provide but a ruger wont use the same stuff as a weatherby would

Edited by pyro6999
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 17:46
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Originally posted by ahuebel ahuebel wrote:

Do the mounts at all depend on the gun or do these mounts fit on all mainstream rifles? I would prefer to just buy everything from the same place but it appears SWFA doesnt sell conetrol or s&k unless I missed it.

 

No, Brownells is the only distributor who sells s&k, but I'm not aware of one who sells conetrol.  You can buy direct from them from their websites or by calling them.

 

www.conetrol.com (Conetrol)

www.scopemounts.com (S&K)

 

I offered those suggestions only because since you're choosing a first-class scope, why not go with first-class mounts as well?

 

If you wish to buy from among the brands SWFA sells, I would personally recommend the Burris Signature, Talley, or Warne. 

 

Yes, the mounts do depend on the gun.  For instance, Sako rifles have their own tapered dovetail, Ruger rifles have their own integral mount design, on Tikka rifles you either use their integral receiver grooves or the threaded holes on top, etc.  But, all the brands mentioned offer mounts/rings for most rifles you can think of.  As Pyro mentioned, even with the same model rifle, short vs. long action sometimes requires different bases, as does the mounting length and objective diameter of the scope.  Then there's the choice of 1-piece vs. 2-piece bases.  1 piece is theoretically slightly stronger (though this advantage is overstated IMO); 2-piece is slightly lighter, provides better ejection port clearance, and looks better to my eyes.

 

One good thing about the better mount mfgs like conetrol, s&k, Warne, and Talley, is you can simply call them and tell them which rifle and scope you have and what finish you want, and they will tell you exactly what part numbers to order, without spending too much time on the phone waiting to speak with the right person.

 

Conetrol and S&K pretty much offer mounts for any rifle ever made, which the other brands can't quite match.

 

All of those mentioned are good though.



Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2007 at 18:19
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I don't own a S&B but heard alot of great things about them.

 

I do own a Zeiss 2.5-10x50 scope & all I can tell you its been damn worth the money I paid for it.

 

I have it topped on a Rem bolt action 700SS 30.06. I like my 2.5V better than my 3x12 V simply because its lighter & more compact.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2007 at 13:12
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Alright then. I called S&K and they suggested I buy the gun and scope first, give them all the specs and they will ship me the bases and rings I need. So now it's a matter of taking the plunge and ordering the scope and driving up to the place I want to buy the gun from.....Pretty exciting stuff.

 

So before buying the scope. I just want to make sure it comes with caps. Here is the exact one I am looking at. http://www.swfa.com/pc-2474-279-schmidt-bender-3-12x50-varia ble-hunting-30mm-riflescope.aspx



Edited by ahuebel
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2007 at 13:53
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OUTSTANDING!  It's always exciting to add a new toy to the stable, and you will definitely have a first-class rig!

 

That scope should come with bikini style lens caps, at least my 1.5-6 Zenith did.

 

Be sure and give us your impressions of the scope, mounts, and rifle, and post pics of the complete rig!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2007 at 14:33
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BTW -- what rifle are you planning to mount this scope on?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2007 at 18:52
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Well I havent completely decided but I am still debating between sako 85 hunter, kimber 8400, or browning a-bolt white gold medalion. I want to hold them in my hand and then make a decision. The caliber will be 30-06.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2007 at 19:17
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With these choices you should have a very fine rifle all first class stuff make sure the scope is mounted correctly and rifle zeroed in and you will be ready for some fun hunting & target shooting. Be shure and pick some ammo that is compatable with you rifle. Different rate of barrel twist will infulence how well it shoots & with what weight bullet and what kind of bullet for the game you are after. Most ammo companies have some information that is helpful to start with ( Hornaday etc. web sites have suggested bullet weight for what twist barrel you have) The final decision will be yours by how well it shoots at the range. Try to buy ammo from the same batch number and bullet weight and you find performs best and you should have great shooting. I am assuming that you are not hand loading .

 

Good luck and good shooting

 

Duce 

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