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S&B or US Optic?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2006 at 13:17
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I am trying to decide between a Schmidt & Bender 10x42 Police Marksman II or a U.S. Optics ST-10 tactical.  I haven't been able to look at these scopes personally, so if anyone has any preferences I would appreciate them.  What ever I get will be going on a Remington 700 .308 5R.  Thanks, catt_tracker 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2006 at 13:32
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I prefer the S&B it has a metric movement and better glass in my opinion.

I feel having the metric movement gives the advatage with the Mil-dot reticle.

The PMII does not have the ILL reticle but has better low light performance so

this shoild not make a difference. Both scopes are great scopes you really canot

go wrong with either. It comes down to the features you like.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2006 at 13:38
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Thanks SVD666,

  If I'm understanding you the S&B has better glass in low light shooting?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2006 at 13:45
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I'd go S&B.  The ST-10, at least the 2 dozen or so that I've seen, and 1 that I've owned, seem to be  variable in quality.

Another issue with the ST10 is that it has limited elevation travel, requiring a 20moa base ofr any type distance shooting, and needs windage adjustable rings as there is limited clearance internal to the scope tube for any kind of windage offset.

For example, you zero your scope at 100 yards and find that from mechanical center you need 7moa to get things right.
You've just removed about 12 moa from the elevation as the erector will now contact the tube going up and going down.

I've seen 1 S&B break, and only one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2006 at 13:45
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  I live in the sticks out here in Idaho and don't get a chance to look at the different scopes in person.  Do you think the S&B would be my best choice in a fixed 10X?  Whatever I buy will have to be over the internet. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2006 at 13:47
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 Do you think the S&B would be my best choice in a fixed 10X? 

 

Yes I do catt-tracker,and it does have the best low light performance.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2006 at 13:52
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Thanks Mike and SVD666 I will go ahead and buy the S&B.  catt_tracker

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2006 at 17:45
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You might be well served with an inexpensive but reliable $299 super sniper. I have a Super Sniper and a 10x M3 Leupold Mark 4 and it it wasnt for the M3 cam system I'm not sure that there is enough difference to justify the price difference as the Super Sniper is quite functional and adequate for my needs.  The M3 cam system though is deadly in combat  high stress situations as you can not get lost in the dial. 

 

That all changes when you get to something like a US Optics SN3 3.3-17with EREK that might be worth the huge price. But fixed 10x to fixed 10x It is dificult  for me to justify the two scopes you are comparing when you can have a Super Sniper for a fraction of the cost and not have to worry about being rough with it because you dont have a fortune tied up in it. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2006 at 00:21
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Quote:Schmidt & Bender website.

We are one of but a few scope companies that can absolutely guarantee the quality of our glass. The quality of the glass in a riflescope is one of the most critical factors in what you see through it. Some scope companies purchase their glass from a number of sources, which saves some money, but at the price of quality control. For decades, Schmidt & Bender's glass has come from an optical company that produces glass of such exceptional clarity and purity that we decided we couldn't risk being without it. So we bought the company. It guarantees that any Schmidt & Bender scope you purchase will always contain the highest quality, clearest, most consistent optics possible.

Buy the best scope you can. It will save you money. The fact is, virtually any rifle is capable of very good accuracy; if the scope mounted upon it allows. There are no "bargains" in riflescopes. Your optics are what allow you to see—and hit—your target. And as you know, any hunt is expensive these days, whether it's a deer hunt close to home or a no-holds-barred overseas safari.

The bottom line? An investment in one of the world's finest scopes is the cheapest insurance you can have. After all, when that trophy of a lifetime steps into the open at last light, your Schmidt & Bender scope is priceless.

Quote:Schmidt & Bender website.

 

I believe and agree with this 100%.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 13:40
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Of course Schmidt and Bender are going to say a riflescope is an investment. The cost of their product
is the amount of a good used car. A scope is just a piece of equipment. Nothing else, how are you
gonna feel, when Murphy's law happens, and you drop that precious piece of glass from your tree stand
or going over a fence? S&B will not replace it, because it is NOT a manufacturer's defect, it's user/owner
abuse. And when all is said and done, I bet you are gonna wish that you had just gotten a Nikon
Monarch, SS, or Mueller.

And as for most euro optic companies, they will ONLY lend their products for testing, to big companies
who own the Gun magazines. I for one, do not trust a company that will only let another BIG company
do the testing on their product. Even the government is run by big business.

So get a decent scope you can afford with good glass and save the rest. And you can have a $1,000
dollar scope on a $1,000 rifle, but it won't shoot worth a dman if you go cheapo on the rings and base.

These are the facts, you can take them or leave them, but it is true.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 16:31
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S&B: hands down.  If you've got the $$, get the S&B.

 

Or, you might also want to look at Unertl.  It is a great piece of gear.  My only hesitation would be that it isn't sold here.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 16:50
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Again you might be better served with a Super Sniper, Nikon Monarch, Mueller, Burris or Zeiss. Save the
money and get a GOOD set of rings and base from TPS systems. IMHO most premium made euro optics
aren't much better than really good glass from Japan. All they are going on is what used to be German
engineering, nowadays with global industries, pretty much everyone is on par with one another. For
example, would you buy a Swiss time piece that was still wind up or would you buy a good Japanese
quartz watch? Really people, use some common sense.



Edited by Wvladimire
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 20:52
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Originally posted by catt_tracker catt_tracker wrote:

I am trying to decide between a .....What ever I get will be going on a Remington 700 .308 5R.  Thanks, catt_tracker 

Why not a variable?

944P3CM New Schmidt & Bender 3-12x50 Police Marksman II 34mm Rifles New Schmidt & Bender 3-12x50 Police Marksman II 34mm Rifles
  • Matte
  • P-3 Mil-Dot
  • 34mm
  • Double Turn Knob
  • Side Focus
  • 1 Centimeter
SWFA: $2,398.99
More Info... Buy Now

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 20:56
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If you really must have euro glass, then save some money and get a Zeiss 3.5-10x44 or 4.5-14 in both
44 & 50MM objective. You will get good glass a better warranty that is transferrable and save some
money for a good set of rings and base. Or you could go with IOR.

And DO YOU REALLY THINK THE USMC IS paying top price for their new S&B scopes????? I highly doubt
it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 21:17
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The USMC ain't paying full price, this is to be expected; however, it is a good scope and a worthy investment even at SWFA prices.

 

I somewhat agree with W. in that, if you have anything but an extensive background in optics and the most demanding of needs, a SuperSniper would save you the $$ and still function very, very well.

 

I've said before that once you've had the best, nothing else looks nearly as good.  If you've never had 1080p HD-DVD, DVD-resolution looks pretty damn good.

 

If you want to buy once and be foreevermore happy, buy the S&B (I'd recommnend variable over fixed) or the Unertl.  if you could stand to save a few thousand $$ and still have a great scope, put the cash under the mattress and buy a SuperSniper.

 

And don't go cheap on base and rings, Badger stuff is the best, IMHO.

 

I own NightForce, Bushnell, USO, and Ziess; and I want an S&B (or Unertl - I did love my Unertl.)

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 21:35
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I don't mean to offend anyone here. But being a former LEO and tactical team member, I have used the
so called best, and have seen it break. And to add insult to injury, have had the manufacturer not honor
their warranty due to,"user abuse." For the 10 yrs I was on a tac team, we used S&B, Swaro, Zeiss, and
others. And the S&B did have a NICE FEEL when it came to adjustments. Nice smooth clicks, solid,
audible, everything just fit as if fine tuned. However, I have also seen that fine tune go completely to
SH.., when it got dust from a bad wind storm in the turrets and rings. In OH you do not expect to get a
wind storm like one would in the desert. Otherwise members would have been prepared with a nylon or
condom to place over it. But I digress. When it came to the glass, it was better than most of you
cheaper scopes. However when compared side by side to a Nikon Monarch, Burris Diamond, and Zeiss,
it all starts to look the same. ( Now mind you all scopes were 40-44 MM obj and no more than 10x, so
they were pretty much even.) And the fact of the matter is, the HUMAN eye cannot pick up the minute
subtle differrences between them all. And that is a fact of science, so I'm sorry if I burst anyone's
bubble.

So save the money, get a GOOD scope, and get TPS rings and base. And my apologies to all you Badger
fans, but they are OVERPRICED and not worth the extra money. When one can get rings and bases
made to more exacting tolerances from TPS and pay much less. A set of their TSR rings and base
should run you $150 total for 7075 aluminum made to .0002 tolerances. Or pay $200 and get the solid
billet steel. Your choice, but get good equipment without breaking the bank. And BTW TPS supplies the
military. They hold SEVERAL contracts with them for rings and bases, even for the SEALS with their
titanim TSR rings. So check them out.

http://www.tpsproducts.com/index.php
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2007 at 13:10
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Badger has always done right by me.

 

Gotta dance with who brung ya'.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2007 at 03:45
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S&B vs USO! -And the winner is...

...I'll get back to you on this one, soon.

loadin' n packin' for a shoot right now

FoF

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2007 at 10:18
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Very Nice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2007 at 11:42
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At this price-point and level of quality, it all comes down to personal preferences.  USO will make a scope tailored to your exact needs and wants (assuming they offer what you want) which has immense value to me; however, S&B makes a product with features most people want and optics that stand with the very best anyone offers.

 

I own a USO, I want an S&B.  Obviously, I don't want it so badly I sell the USO to get it, but I do want an S&B.

 

And if my beloved Marine Corps now issues it to our HOGS, it's good gear.



Edited by Rancid Coolaid
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2007 at 13:27
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I've seen more consistent glass quality from USO lately than a few years ago, so I think glasswise USO and S&B are neck in neck.  However, if you are looking for optimal low light performance a fixed magnification 10x42 scope is usually not the best way to go due to a smallish exit pupil.  If you are after the best low light performance possible, consider something a long the lines of a top notch 8x56 or a variable of some sort.

As for German companies not willing to lend equipment for review.   Some distributors are, I suppose, more likely to do that than others.  I just got a couple of Optolyth spotters for review, to support my point.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2007 at 15:39
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


I just got a couple of Optolyth spotters for review, to support my point.

ILya

 

Those are supposed to be very nice. I look forward to your reviews on those.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2007 at 19:20
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They are indeed very nice and I will start a thread in the "Reviews" forum with my initial impressions and will post updates as I keep playing with them.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2007 at 17:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2007 at 18:14
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now thats how you break in a scope--8shots thinks I was just kidding.
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