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S&B haze at dusk..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2011 at 23:04
mgraham View Drop Down
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I had sent in the first S&B 3x12x50 only to see the same issues with the second one they sent me. At dusk, right as the sun is setting, I get a foggy haze in the scope or should i say transmitted through the glass. It's like looking through a light fog. I know it is relevant to the suns position while setting, but i dont have this problem with my zeiss, IOR, NF, elite 4200, or nikon.. It seems that the S&B is letting the setting sun cause a glare on the glass or something.. Anybody else seen this issue with S&B? Once the sun finally sets, the glass is great and clear. Is this common with some other scopes as well and what causes this?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2011 at 08:13
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Sounds like it's "flaring". Here is a little read on lens flare, what causes it, and how to help. It does seem odd to me that the S&B would have flare issues, when the others wouldn't. Were the conditions the same? Using a sunshade should help the problem, but I can't believe a S&B would have a problem when scopes with "lesser glass" don't.


Edited by trigger29 - January/16/2011 at 08:14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2011 at 19:08
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It is called veiling flare.

It happens some times with some scopes. 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2011 at 20:51
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and is subject to a number of factors... not just "glass quality".  Types of coatings, glass element alignment and personal sight picture are big players...
ILya always has the most wonderful terms... "veiling flare"  it has a kind of beauty in itself... (even though it decreases your ability to "see"...)

"veiling flare"... I love it ILya, what a marvelous description... not just flare, as most define it, but "veiling flare"... magnificent descriptive term...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2011 at 20:57
koshkin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

and is subject to a number of factors... not just "glass quality".  Types of coatings, glass element alignment and personal sight picture are big players...
ILya always has the most wonderful terms... "veiling flare"  it has a kind of beauty in itself... (even though it decreases your ability to "see"...)

"veiling flare"... I love it ILya, what a marvelous description... not just flare, as most define it, but "veiling flare"... magnificent descriptive term...

I did not come up with the term.  It is actually a standard description for this type of flare.  It is typically caused by reflection off of the objective lens when there is a bright object within the field of view.  The flare looks like a semi-transparent veil over a part of the image.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2011 at 21:01
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

and is subject to a number of factors... not just "glass quality".  Types of coatings, glass element alignment and personal sight picture are big players...
ILya always has the most wonderful terms... "veiling flare"  it has a kind of beauty in itself... (even though it decreases your ability to "see"...)

"veiling flare"... I love it ILya, what a marvelous description... not just flare, as most define it, but "veiling flare"... magnificent descriptive term...

I did not come up with the term.  It is actually a standard description for this type of flare.  It is typically caused by reflection off of the objective lens when there is a bright object within the field of view.  The flare looks like a semi-transparent veil over a part of the image.

ILya

But most people just call it "flare"... your use of the correct term is just outstanding.   Words mean things.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2011 at 21:30
mgraham View Drop Down
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i was very surprised when i saw this issue with my S&B. i was comparing it to a conquest and i was just amazed when i could see through the conquest and the S&B had just a haze over the glass until the sun finally set . This happened with the sun at various angles from the sides also. I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this with S&B or any other high end brands. To me, this is a defect and this scope will be returned and probably my first and last S&B. Overall, the S&B is perfect with this exception of this issue. Thanks for your help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2011 at 23:06
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Ever try using a sun shade as the cure?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2011 at 07:34
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I had a fixed power S&B and never saw the effects you describe.  Could be you got one made on a "bad day" for someone in the assembly chain.  I wouldn't let one instance the the end of possibilities for Schmidt and Bender.  They generally exhibit extremely high quality.  I would definitely talk to the company.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2011 at 08:50
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I have the same issue with my Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10X50 to some degree when the sun is low on the horizon.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2011 at 09:21
mgraham View Drop Down
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This is the second S&B with the same problem, so i doubt the reality of a manufacturer's defect. Perhaps I should do more testing before i say it's my last S&B. I was just so surprised when the NF and Zeiss didnt have the same problem under the exact same conditions. I refuse to even try and alleviate with a sunshade on the S&B unless I had the same issue across the board with the other scopes, not to mention the scope didn't come with a sunshade. I am left to the conclusion that i need to test some more since there have not been any confirmations with similar problems. I am going to call them and see what they say, but i think i remember that they test each batch of glass individually and apply coatings and what not to meet their standards and this is the reason why glass of the same mfg might have a different "tint". So i would assume this glass was tested and couldnt be a bad batch.   

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2011 at 06:28
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I'm guessing that for a scope to do better than most in one area it must sacrifice in another. The veiling flare may be a trade off for something else. If I understand correctly the S&B was designed as a night hunting scope for countries that allow it. I don't think flare wouldn't be an issue at night, but clarity, color, resolution, etc. would. Maybe handling flare was not as much of a priority. I dunno.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2011 at 12:41
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I own scopes made by Leupold, Vortex, Weaver, Zeiss and Swarovski and I have never noticed any flaring, can a manufacturer prevent flaring or is this something we have to learn to live with in certain situations?
Sam
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2011 at 14:11
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Every optic involves making a series of design decisions that always involve compromises. 
 
S&B makes scopes that are considered some of the finest in the world, but they will always fall short of their competitors in one aspect or another.  The same applies to Zeiss, Swaro, etc.  It is simply not possible to optimize every single desirable characteristic in the same optic.  In order to excel in one desirable characteristic, the designer must almost always sacrifice another.  It then becomes a matter of evaluating what is most important to accomplishing the design goals.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2011 at 14:24
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I think I've seen that hazy "veil" effect in a Nikon Monarch before.

I'm guessing it wasn't spots of bright light as in regular lens flare, but a foggy sort of contrast reducing haze,right?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2011 at 15:02
mgraham View Drop Down
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Yes, it was a complete haze/fog.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2011 at 03:06
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I see it in my S&B Zenith...with or without sunshade.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2011 at 10:35
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interesting
I have a Zenith 1.5-6, this past weekend we were watching a coyote at a tank right as the sun was setting, directly behind the area he was at.. I didn't notice it but was having a hard time with the sun in general just flooding the scope and getting white out..

My buddy with a Nikon was struggling with the same thing and we were using our hands to make a sunshade to help alleviate it...

But, I don't recall a hazing effect
Will be going out again this weekend and will do some more testing
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