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Saw a Super Sniper made by Nikko Stirling

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 14:32
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It is a good looking set up. You like the Hogue stock?
I'm sure that the Nikko being Japanese made is atleast an OK scope. Hopefully it will serve you well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 15:52
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Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

It is a good looking set up. You like the Hogue stock?

Thanks, I'd say it's the best of the cheap stocks,  much better than the stock Rem SPS Varmint stock...for the same price.

Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:


I'm sure that the Nikko being Japanese made is atleast an OK scope. Hopefully it will serve you well.


Thanks


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 05:45
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Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

I'm not saying that the Nikko isn't a decent scope. It may well be. I will say though, that the attempt to mimick the SS by other companies is a testament to the fact that they recognize a superior product and are, or were trying to cash in on the success of another companies product. Also that by not trying to make theirs as different as was possible, there was no attempt on their part other than trying to cash in on anothers merits.

 
It not a mimick or copy, simply that the 'product' was never exclusive to any one buyer. Ive listed 5 different buyers in my previous post that have marketed these over the years. Those are just the ones that I know of.
 
It still isn't exclusive to SWFA as Edgar Brother's have marketed the 'product' in the UK for years and they continue to do so today. Currently I think they only offer it in 10x42 side parallax (10x42M) form, but in the past I have owned a 20x42 from them also.
 
I'll stand by my ealier post.  Having used both a recent Edgar Brothers 10x42 and recent (SWFA sourced) Super Sniper 10x42M, side by side, I can confirm they are identical in the following departments: exterior finish and quality of, optical standard, weight.
 
Its totally possible that one buyer specifies a different inspection standard than they other buyer. Its also possible that one uses different materials and internals to the other, in this case though they did a great job to keep the weights exactly the same.
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 05:51
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Cyborg:  The material in the links you have posted does absolutely NOTHING to  address my question of the differences – if any – between the Tasco Super Sniper and the Nikko Stirling Sniper.  Doesn’t even MENTION the latter!

 

If what is stated about the Tasco scopes in the article by David Fortier in TacticalGunFan is correct, it brings up some serious questions about them, even though the chronology is very vague. 

 

Quote: “Not a commercial product, it was originally developed for military use by Tasco in answer to a Request for Procurement made by the US Navy in the 1980s.”

 

So I guess that means that it could have been originally developed any time between 1980 and 1989.

 

Quote: “A few years went by and a small, family owned business that specialized in optics (SWFA Inc.) managed to buy a small quantity of these scopes on closeout. The scopes were an overrun from the Navy contract, and the price was excellent, so SWFA scooped them up and sold them on the US commercial market.”

 

A few years from when?  The above statements could mean it was anywhere from about the mid 1980s to the early to mid 1990s when SWFA were selling the original lot of ‘over-run’ scopes.   

 

Quote: “These early scopes garnered an excellent reputation and sold quickly, so SWFA approached Tasco about continuing production, but at the closeout price. A deal was struck and Tasco tooled up. Unfortunately, many of these later scopes weren't of the same quality as the earlier Navy overruns. The model soon earned a bad reputation, and Tasco eventually went out of business.”

 

Quote: “The scopes themselves are made in a small plant in Japan that specializes in high-end optical instruments. During negotiations, SWFA made it very clear that these new scopes had to be every bit the equal of the original Navy contract scopes.”

It’s not clear from this how many manufacturers have been involved in the production of the Tasco/SWFA scopes, from the original navy contract ones to the present. One? Two?  Three?

 

If Fortier is to be believed (and you, Cyborg, are holding his article up as an authoritative reference on the subject) then from somewhere between the mid 1980s and the mid 1990s, through to 2003 when the Tasco company went belly up, they were selling SS scopes of variable quality and with a generally poor reputation.

 

The Nikko Stirling Sniper scopes appeared on the market in the mid 1990s, and garnered a fairly good reputation amongst ‘F’ class target shooters in the British Commonwealth countries where they seem to have been sold in the greatest numbers. 

 

But to quote from some of your earlier posts:

 

Tasco had a few military contracts. I'm unsure if Nikko did or did not. I can also feel rather safe in the assumption that the two scopes while looking very simiialar are completely different inside component or material wise.

 

I have tried to not say this as I have no experience with that scope. IT IS NOT the same as the Super Sniper. I can be almost 100% sure that it will not be as good as a Super Sniper. (Tasco or SWFA)

 

The SWFA and Tasco SuperSnipers are, and were very tough, and very well built scopes. They represent what is likely the very best value for the money spent. They are "Crazy Tough" and "Nothing else comes close."

 

Just know that having half the story, or making assumptions isn't fact finding.

 

You should take this last one on board for yourself!!!!!

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 09:57
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And for all your effort this did or proved what for you. You are the one whom made it a pissing contest. and no one has gained any thing here.......GOODBYE...rover

Edited by rifle looney - February/15/2009 at 09:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 11:59
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Neither the Tasco, nor the SWFA was or is made by HAKKO. The others are made by Asia Optical, and Hakko. The SS is not, nor was it made by them. It is and has been made by the same company and in the same plant then as it is now. This comes directly from the very person that now owns the brand. They were the first, so anything else is a "copy cat"
 
I'm not going to say that a "copy cat" won't also be a good scope. As I have said before, they may well be. I am saying though that the first introduction of the SS was a great scope. I am also saying that the present production is even better than the originals were.
 
Why so many want to claim that something else is built in the same plant as the SS, when it comes from the owners that they are not, is totally beyond me.
 
Even if they were, they still would not be the same scopes. It is clear that Barska and Zeiss aren't made in the same plant. But for arguments sake say that they were, would that then make Barska Zeiss equal? The answer would be a resounding NO. Why would that be? Because Zeiss would make damned sure that the proprietary elements used for the construction of their scopes was protected. This is what SMART comapnies do to protect their share of the market. The point is MOOT but none the less a valid point, as you seem to think that an argument for them being from the same plant would then make them the equal, regardless of the fact that they are not from the same plant.
 
What are you trying to push across as fact? Better yet, why? There is nothing to be gained in doing so. You want to dismiss everything presented to you, but offer only speculation. What I posted are only a very small fragment of what can easily be found, you have to READ and COMPREHEND what has been posted in a number of places. Then you must take that which is factual and use it to dismiss what isn't. Most of what is out there is purely speculation, and has no authenticity. You don't care about any of that though, you are looking for a pissing contest. Despite your claims of having no interest in my urinary system.
(That's a funny line by the way, atleast I thought so anyway Excellent)
Just what exactly is your interest in my "urinary system" outside of the fact that mine does work very well. Your stream seems a tad bit weak. Drink plenty of fluids, and come back in a few days with real honest facts and not specualtive conjecture based on time lines and assumptions.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 12:17
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dav619...... First welcome to Optics Talk. Second, It is from Chris Farris himself that the SWFA SS is and has been made in the same plant as was in it's conception. To continue suggesting anything else to try and garner weight for other products is calling him a liar. This site is owned and operated by SWFA. Chris is a close and dear friend of mine. I will not, nor will anyone else simply allow such adamant speculation to continue here. If you wish to continue in your assumptive demands. You may feel free to do so else where. I won't allow it to continue here. RedRover this goes for you as well. 
 
 


Edited by cyborg - February/15/2009 at 12:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 16:56
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Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

dav619...... First welcome to Optics Talk. Second, It is from Chris Farris himself that the SWFA SS is and has been made in the same plant as was in it's conception. To continue suggesting anything else to try and garner weight for other products is calling him a liar. This site is owned and operated by SWFA. Chris is a close and dear friend of mine. I will not, nor will anyone else simply allow such adamant speculation to continue here. If you wish to continue in your assumptive demands. You may feel free to do so else where. I won't allow it to continue here. RedRover this goes for you as well. 
 
 
 
I havent called anybody a liar.
 
I am aware of who operates this forum.
 
This is clearly not speculation, even so much as a quick google of the brand names I have mentioned will more than validate this.
 
I think a documented side by side comparision (with pics) might be in order.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:17
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A quick google does as anyone wants based on conjecture, and opinions of the ones that write what you find. Read the link that goes to this forum, and what Chris Farris has said.
Again he is the ONE that knows. It is also known that the SS is not made by Hakko, nor is it made by Asis Optical as the others are. It is also known that there are Marketers out there trying to insist that the SS is made by the same as the product that they are trying to sell.
Since it is the stance of this forums host, that these calims are illegitimate. Then any claim to the contrary is the same as calling them liars.
 
And yes, these claims ARE speculation.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:19
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Gentlemen, let's cool things down a touch.

I will not address which scope is better or worse since I have not seen them all.

Here are a few things that are coming off as fact: Nikko Sniper scope is made by Asia Optical, right?  That virtually guarantees that it is not made by the same people as the Super Sniper.

This Edgar Brothers scope you refer to, where is it made?  All accounts that I have seen indicate that ti was made by Hakko (Hakko did indeed make a Super Sniper look alike scope for some time).

As for the Lynx 10x42, the current version clearly has no relation to the Super Sniper.  I am pretty sure they marketed a SUper SNiper look alike scope, but I do not know who made it.

Here is the one thing I know with a great deal of certainty: Tasco/SWFA was never made by either Hakko (now called Japan Optic Limited, by the way) or Asia Optical.

If the scopes you refer to, were made by either Hakko or Asia Optical, then Super Sniper is NOT the same scope.

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:19
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I once came across a SS made by Chevrolet ....traded it for a Gateway branded one??????......WTF........ this is stupid.Loco put it too rest.                please!       

Edited by rifle looney - February/15/2009 at 17:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:29
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Ilya..........You and I know.........But regardless of what we continue to preach, they will not get it, and they have no desire to truly hunt facts. I suspect that they want to know where the SS is made. Chris has mentioned that he wants that to remain proprietary info. We do know according to the inspection sticker on the SS, and that it isn't where these others are being made.
 
I am unclear as to why they want to insist that they are the same scopes when it is truly not the case. As such I am very suspicious as to their motives.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:48
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


This Edgar Brothers scope you refer to, where is it made?  All accounts that I have seen indicate that ti was made by Hakko (Hakko did indeed make a Super Sniper look alike scope for some time).

As for the Lynx 10x42, the current version clearly has no relation to the Super Sniper.  I am pretty sure they marketed a SUper SNiper look alike scope, but I do not know who made it.

 
The inspection sticker on the EB Sniper 10x42 states Kenko Optics Japan.
 
The original Lynx 10x42 mirrors the EB.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 20:50
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I say if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's probably a chicken in a costume and the only way you'll ever know is to kill it. My 16x duck came from SWFA and from what I know, there are alot of turrets that look like them, eye pieces focus + and -  most are even numbered the same, you know 1 to 14. Yes, I can see the argument that they might all be the same...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 20:58
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Maybe they really are super snipers. I wrote my name on another kids science project once and said I made it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 21:14
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Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

Just simply being made in the same plant does not make them EQUAL.
 
 
Leupold Rifleman scopes and the MK IV LRT Tactical scopes are made in the same place and if that makes them equal in quality, then why spend the extra $1200 on the MK IV. Cyborg, please stop arguing with this red rover caracter. He's still convinced his chevy avalanche is a cadillac escalade... Same plant you know.
 
and would someone please welcome me to the forum...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 21:52
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OOOPS so sorry moosetrax.
Welcome to Optics Talk.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2009 at 22:45
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The Super Snipers are suppose to be made by Hakko not Nikko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2009 at 06:53
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Hakko never made the Supersniper.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2009 at 08:45
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Hakko made the Springfield Armory scopes, which may be what they are thinking of...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2009 at 06:15
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Hi all,
New member here. Just want to add a little to the debate about the quality of the Niko Stirling scopes. I have had a Bushnell 3-9x40 mounted on my Remington 700 VTR for a few months and bad issues relating to paralax and quality of the image, so as i am a budget shooter i bought the Niko Stirling Nighteater scope in 8-32x60 with illuminted reticle and my shooting in both target and hunting has improved, yes granted they are not in the same league as Nightforce or the M4 leupold scopes but i have to give them credit.
Thanks and hope to chat soon.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2014 at 18:18
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I have just found this quite old thread on the comparison on the various branded "sniper" scopes.
I just thought I would comment as I actually own several of these scopes and can actually talk about them from a factually correct basis as i have them in my hands so to speak rather than made up "facts" and internet rumours.
I also have a background in optical electrical maintenance/engineering so can speak with authority when talking about optical clarity and quality.
I own the following:
16x42 non branded/white box as issued under US navy contract (i.e.tasco contract)
bought from  military source "under the table" way back in 1999.
I have an Edgar brothers 10x42, as SWFA contract 20x42 and just recently purchased a Nikko 16x42 sniper scope that is mint off ebay for silly cheap money.
It is because of this purchase i found this thread.
Here is my 4penneth!
The Tasco and SWFA seem identical. The SWFA does not seem quite as robust as the Tasco and the tube seems not as solid and the scope is physically lighter. That is not to say both aren't as tough as each other, just what i have observed from holding them. The edgar brothers scope is actually slightly heavier by my scales and the finish is slightly better, but despite this seems more fragile. This is probably because of the different contracted finish for a commercial scope rather than the military required finish.The Nikko is identical to the Edgar brothers scope in this regard.

The major difference between the Tasco/SWFA and the Nikko scope is the reticle.
The Nikko/edgar brothers scopes have wire reticles, the Tasco/SWFA glass etched reticles.
This does NOT mean they are any more or less robust. Leupold has used wire reticles in their scopes for decades as have every other manufacturer and only recently adopted glass etched ones to improve robustness in there already legendary tough tactical scopes. In fact glass etched reticles introduce another glass plane to alter and diffuse light in the scope, which wire does not.

All these scopes are either made by Asia optical and/or HAKKO (same factory manufacturer really) if they are made in Japan which ALL of the scope I own are so marked.They are or were all made under contract and the quality of the scopes and the internal and external spec and finish are different as the contract to manufacture them was set to the price per that contract.
SWFA will not and does not hold the design rights to these scopes per se.
I imagine those are held with whoever originated the first contract (Tasco?) or even the US navy as is was there original contract.
They also now do not sell outside of the US (ITAR regulations not withstanding) and if you want one of these scope you either have to sneak one out (!) or buy the alternative branded one if available.

I can see no difference in lens quality or coatings, in fact the Nikko has the slight edge in that regard, which does not surprise me as it is newer and more recently made and lens coatings can degrade over time. As I said i can only compare what I have in my hands.
All have decent optical quality, but none in the same class as say Schmidt and Bender, Swarovski or even Leupold and Burris scopes that I have compared them to.

For the money these scope are some of the best scopes you can get. They are tough, do the job and stay zeroed. So far the wire reticles have not broken. Yes, i do not have a .50 cal to really test them, but i do have a .308  and a .303 that are not light recoiling and have put many rounds downrange so far with no problems.
Yes I would choose a glass reticle scope if given the option, but to say the Non tasco/swfa scope are inferior is not either correct or fair. I would say they are the commercial version of the original Tasco sniper scope. They were never intended to be dropped from an aircraft, or submersed whilst exiting a sub on a SEAL team mission, but probably will survive being dropped out the back of your truck which is most likely the worst that will happen to it in civilian hands.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2014 at 20:08
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Legendary tough tactical scopes, I had to laugh at that one!
And there was a Navy contract for the 16X?
 
The issue of "good enough" is always welcome, but gloss over some very important factors with too much ease.
 
"Legendary tough", that might never get old!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2014 at 20:16
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Get Your Popcorn Ready
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2014 at 20:20
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Thanks for the rundown, Danieltex.

Can you can post a pic of the four next to each other so we can see the differences and similarities?

Also, I am curious about the "extra optical plane to alter and diffuse light."  Plane like a focal plane?  Alter and diffuse in what way exactly?  

Thanks!


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