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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 02:22
dmarx View Drop Down
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Hi There

Please help. I recently purchased a sako forester .243.
I have reloaded 303, 357 and have no problems with the rounds at all.
I have a lee die set for reloading. 
The problem I am experiencing, is with the 243.
Purchased rounds, are loading and ejecting just fine. The reloaded rounds, go in a little bit tight ( not too much of a concern though), the problem comes when I try to open the bolt.....It is almost impossible for me to get the bolt open after firing the round...
Is there an extra die that needs to be used, other that the dies that  remove the primer, size the cartridge, and seat the bullet ? (the standard 3 dies found in the lee die set).
It's as though the cartridge is flaring, or extending, don't really know.
Some people have said, I need to trim the cartridge, will this resolve the problem ?
Please help !!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 06:13
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Sounds like maybe too hot of a load
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 07:15
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if they are going in a bit tight sounds like you may need to screw your FLS die in another half a turn or so.  Doesn't sound like they are getting sized right.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 08:31
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If you can easily chamber and extract an unfired round there is nothing wrong with your sizer but there is with your load.   
 
You do understand how to properly work up a load while observing for signs of excessive pressure?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 09:26
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Give us more details of your load? are you trimming? FL sizing or neck? more details please.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2011 at 21:41
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I'm right with the other here.  But I also have the same caliber and gun and mine has a problem with Federal brass showing pressure 1 1/2 grs lower than others.  I just don't load the Fed brass rounds very hot.  Good luck
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2011 at 11:16
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Federal brass is soft compared to the other brands in IMO. Is the bullet seated to the correct depth? Is it being jammed into the barrel with no "jump" before the rifling? This can cause pressure to be high. If the bolt handle lifts hard, you have too much pressure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2011 at 12:27
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Were these rounds fired in another rifle?  If so, you will probably want to buy a small base die to get them back to new brass spec. 

Or like others have stated, you may need to bump the shoulder back a little more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2012 at 07:15
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 Nice gun too, I'd go easy on the loads if they are on the warm side. Case prep is a major step with rifle reloading. You reduce problems if you start off with new brass for that rifle. Yes, I'd trim & do all the other steps. If you start with modest loads there shouldn't be a problem. I have a Sako Forester myself.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2012 at 21:50
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You could always measure the chamber and make certain your sizing  right. I would definitely inspect the cases for flattened primers etc sounds to hot. I have found some of my guns prefer going slow as opposed to pushing them. If you are trying to push it too fast you are better off stepping up to a larger/faster caliber much better for the life of your rifle and a Sako is a heck of a gun to ruin.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2012 at 08:32
dmarx View Drop Down
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Thanks for all the assistance, turns out the chamber is oval in shape.
Bummer.....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2012 at 11:55
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by dmarx dmarx wrote:

Thanks for all the assistance, turns out the chamber is oval in shape.
Bummer.....
Not to worry, there are several options available to you. A Cerrosafe chamber cast should be made to determine if a simple chamber ream might solve the problem. If the chamber oval's wide dimension is within spec, that may work. Depending on the dimensions of the cast and the oval, a re- chambering to .243AI, .243-'06, 6WSM or one of several other 6mm flavors might be an option.
You see where this is going... I'm sure you'd hate to have to sell a Forester.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 09:15
dmarx View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Hi Alan

Thanks for that, I have one or two more questions though if you don't mind.

The calibers that you were mentioning, are they freely available ? I am from South Africa, and to be honest, I have only heard of standard .243 rounds. Would I be form firing standard new 243 rounds, and then have to purchase  a die set of one of the calibers you mentioned ? (If I went the ream route) also, would the points still be the same ?

The second thing I keep on asking myself is, if the chamber is oval.
Why do I struggle to remove only my loaded rounds, and not bought/first time fired rounds..

Surely if the chamber were oval, it should affect the bought rounds too ???
The chap I took it to reckons he knows a lot about guns, but I think I better get a second opinion from a professional about this, because I would never want to part with my Forester...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 10:37
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If it only happens with your reloads, I would guess it has to do with them. Have you loaded some rounds way down to determine that its definitely not a high pressure issue. Also try bumping the neck back a tad more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 12:42
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by dmarx dmarx wrote:

Hi Alan

Thanks for that, I have one or two more questions though if you don't mind.

The calibers that you were mentioning, are they freely available ? I am from South Africa, and to be honest, I have only heard of standard .243 rounds. Would I be form firing standard new 243 rounds, and then have to purchase  a die set of one of the calibers you mentioned ? (If I went the ream route) also, would the points still be the same ?

The second thing I keep on asking myself is, if the chamber is oval.
Why do I struggle to remove only my loaded rounds, and not bought/first time fired rounds..

Surely if the chamber were oval, it should affect the bought rounds too ???
The chap I took it to reckons he knows a lot about guns, but I think I better get a second opinion from a professional about this, because I would never want to part with my Forester...
I would definitely get a second opinion, but before you do, there is much that you can do to determine your problem.
Do you have access to precision calipers? They can be inexpensive and will prove invaluable for hand loading. Measure your cases- once fired/ factory ammo, etc.
If the chamber is oval, then your fired cases will be, also.

If experiencing the problem only with reloads, suspect the reload.
Hard bolt lift/extraction is a sure sign of overpressure. Some things to look for:
a) case length... if case length is too long, the neck may be protruding into the leade into the lands and constrict the neck expansion during ignition, causing high pressure
a-1) How do the fired hand loaded cases differ from the fired factory cases?
a-2) How do unfired hand load cases differ from unfired factory cases?
b) powder charge and primer- do you have the same problem with reduced loads? Tried a different primer?
c) Are primers flattened, cratered, top- hat? Are ejector/extractor marks visible on fired cases?
d) Do your fired cases appear oval, or bulged to one side, or overly bulged above the extractor groove?
e) Is there a shiny ring appearing just forward of the case head/extractor groove?
f) Do internet searches for warning signs of high pressure.

The calibers mentioned are not off- the- shelf... the .243AckleyImproved is a basic .243 case with shoulder moved forward and shoulder angle changed and the .243)6mm)-'06 is formed from necked down .30-06 cases. 6mmWSM is a factory cartridge, but limited distribution. There are quite a few 6mm variants out there which could correct a (slightly) eccentric chamber. All would require re- chambering by a competent gunsmith and a new set of dies- which are often expensive themselves. From what you've told us, the rifle's chamber isn't the first "suspect" at this point.

Since you asked about dies, one might infer that you have minimal experience as a hand loader.
You will gain the most insight into your problem by first carefully inspecting and measuring your fired factory and hand loaded cases.

Any hard info you can give us will help. Do you mind telling us the load you used which was producing the hard extraction-- primers/powder and grains/bullet- with weight in grs. and case brand? If you want, you can include info about case dimensions, too.


If all else fails, you can seek a pro's help. However, the more that you do yourself at this point, the more you will increase your knowledge about all things rifle/hand loading.

Many gunsmiths have Cerrosafe on hand. You can also buy it mail- order.
Cerrosafe is a metal that is poured molten into the chamber and then allowed to cool and it then shrinks a tiny amount and can be tapped out of the chamber, thus allowing very accurate chamber measurements. As before, you can get about as much info as you need from measurements of your fired cases.

A friend of mine once owned an old Savage model 99 in .308 that had the worst egg shaped chamber we had ever seen (still true after 30 yrs).  All fired cases had a huge bulge and the cases were somewhat oval to the eye, but he did not experience difficulties with extraction. He named the rifle "Guppy". He traded that rifle a couple of times, but would always go trade for it back, it was so accurate and well, fun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 14:09
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Oh, forgot to tell you a couple of things...

First, Welcome to the OT forums dmarx
and second-
 I am just some guy with no particular expertise, so double check any info given.

 As a matter of fact, even after all these years hand loading, I make mistakes and have posted some of them in these threads with hopes of maybe alerting others who maybe haven't yet made similar mistakes.

see: http://www.opticstalk.com/primer-pocket-depth-and-uniforming_topic33262.html 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 20:29
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Hi Alan

Wow....
Okay, I have to say thank you.
You have given me a bit of homework, which I will gladly take on. And yes, by your standards I defintely am a beginner Big Grin

You will have to give me some time, I will get as much info together as possible and give you more hard facts.
Kind Regards

Desmond
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 00:39
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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So sorry- hope that wasn't too much information.
You're in winter, but I'm suffering from sun baked brain syndrome and can't stop typing.
Or something.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 21:50
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You aren't crimping are you? .243 doesn't really need it.  For me at least, crimping hurts accuracy and causes a bit more pressure and therefore expansion.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2012 at 00:50
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Usually diffcult extraction is caused by excessive chamber pressure and that can be caused by several thing such as too much powder, incorrect powder, hot loads, jamming bullets into the rifling in combination with excessively hot loads.
 
If it is possible to close the bolt without excessive force chances are the the round is full length sized correctly and case length is not excessive especially after only one firing.  Taking a look at the reloaded rounds that extracted with difficulty look at the case head for high pressure signs such as imprints of ejectors or extractor cuts, cratered primers, or case head expansion to the degree that primers fall out. Upon firing have the primers been blown loose from the primer pocket? All of this happens when chamber pressures approach 70,000 psi.
 
Check to see if the rounds intended for reloading are the same length as factory rounds. I have never seen an oval or eliptical chamber but I guess almost anything is possible. Get a micrometer and measure cases for variations in radii. I put a small dab of wheel bearing grease on the faces of bolt locking lugs to prevent galling but that is no solution for excessive high pressure loads.
 
Get help (gun smith) before firing any more of your hand loads.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 06:55
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Ek hoop jy kan afrikaans verstaan,indien nie sal ek jou graag in engels antwoord.Ek het 'n sako 243 forester by my vrou se oupa gekry en was vreeslik bly totdat ek begin herlaai het.Alles wat jy hier noem het ek beleef en op die ou einde het ek die geweer vir meer as 'n jaar in die kluis toegesluit en net met my 308 geskit.Ek het egter vanjaar weer moed gekry en weer begin laai.
 
Die sako 243 forester het 'n baie oresiese "headspace" en dus moet jou dop presies gevol size word,ek praat lettrlik hier van die dikte van 'n haar!!! Sorg eerstens dat jou doppe se lengte reg is.Wanneer jy begin size hou jou geweer by jou en toets die heeltyd die dop in die slot totdat hy gemaklik begin toe en oop maak.Pasop net om hom te ver te stel want dan begin jy duike in die skouer druk.Hy skiet ook nie met enige punte nie.Ek het gevind dat PMP en Hornady die beste pas,Jou Siera 100gr punte werk nie.Hulle diameter verskil en jy sal nie die patroon in die kamer in kry nir,vra my maar.
 
Sorg dat jy net doppe gebruik wat met jou geweer geskiet is en as jy kan koop vir jou sako patrone en hou die doppe,hulle werk die beste.Indien jy kan kry laat weet my ek het ook weer nodig... Hoop jy kom reg.
 
Groete
 
D
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 06:58
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O ja,moet ook nie jou lading op die maksimum laai nie.Gebruik 'n medium lading as jy met 365 laai.Hulle hou glad nie van hoe ladings nie.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 19:15
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WP Burger SA, WELKOM!!!

Ek soek na gesuip woes goffel en zamalek- lank Afrikaans tolk/vertaler, totsiens.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 22:39
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WP-
Nou dat dmarx het nie teruggekeer, ek dink hy het 'n maksimum lading. Miskien sy Forester ne jou vrou se oupa se geweer is gebou op dieselfde dag. Ek ook hoop je kan my afrikaans verstaan.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2012 at 02:04
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Originally posted by WP Burger SA WP Burger SA wrote:

Ek hoop jy kan afrikaans verstaan,indien nie sal ek jou graag in engels antwoord.Ek het 'n sako 243 forester by my vrou se oupa gekry en was vreeslik bly totdat ek begin herlaai het.Alles wat jy hier noem het ek beleef en op die ou einde het ek die geweer vir meer as 'n jaar in die kluis toegesluit en net met my 308 geskit.Ek het egter vanjaar weer moed gekry en weer begin laai.
 
Die sako 243 forester het 'n baie oresiese "headspace" en dus moet jou dop presies gevol size word,ek praat lettrlik hier van die dikte van 'n haar!!! Sorg eerstens dat jou doppe se lengte reg is.Wanneer jy begin size hou jou geweer by jou en toets die heeltyd die dop in die slot totdat hy gemaklik begin toe en oop maak.Pasop net om hom te ver te stel want dan begin jy duike in die skouer druk.Hy skiet ook nie met enige punte nie.Ek het gevind dat PMP en Hornady die beste pas,Jou Siera 100gr punte werk nie.Hulle diameter verskil en jy sal nie die patroon in die kamer in kry nir,vra my maar.
 
Sorg dat jy net doppe gebruik wat met jou geweer geskiet is en as jy kan koop vir jou sako patrone en hou die doppe,hulle werk die beste.Indien jy kan kry laat weet my ek het ook weer nodig... Hoop jy kom reg.
 
Groete
 
D
 
The Sako has a very precise headspace and cases have to be sized exactly, to a thou ! Cut cases to length, resize and keep testing till the bolt opens and closes easily Do not oversize, then shoulders are pushed in. It also requires the correct bullet. PMP, Hornady works best. Sierra 100gr will not work. The diameter is wrong and will not fit the chamber, ask me!!
Re-use only your own cases. If you buy rounds, only buy Sako and keep the cases.
 
That in a nutshell what he said.
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