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Sako 85 Design

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Horsemany View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 08:29
Timber
Yes it was stain.  Nearly every walnut stock sold today by any company is stained.  I finish wood as part of a my profession.  The proper way to do it is to stain first and allow to dry.  Then topcoat with whatever.  Apparently they just tinted their oil with stain on the 85's, cause if you use a rag damp with anything it will come off dk brown.  If you're wood is as nice on your 75 as 85 you either got an exceptional 75 or kinda plain 85.  If I wasn't so lazy I'd post some pics of my 85's wood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 10:43

I have a T3 Hunter coming, and the pictures of the stock make it look like the finish may need help - it looks kinda muddy or something in the pictures.  Is there any self-help for that?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 10:46
Most likely not, when you get it post a pic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 10:53

I will post a pic.  It is not a big deal to me, this will be a 100% using rifle if it turns out to be a good shooter, it is a 338WM.  I don't really want to have to be so careful with it like I do with the Abolt Medallion wood, but I wanted a wood stock over the T3 Lite stock for other reasons. (I figured a little extra weight in a 338WM is a good thing...)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 10:58
That it will be.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 11:50
Originally posted by timber timber wrote:

Agreed.  I hope I don't get flamed for this but I like the RCM's better than the WSM's.  I'd love to see either a 270 RCM or 7MM RCM, preferably the latter.  
................Don`t be surprised if Ruger does exactly that. The 300 RCM has a 30 degree shoulder while the 300 WSM has a 35 degree. Even so, I`ve never had a feeding problem with my 300 WSM, as I full size all reloads. The 300 WSM has a little more case capacity than the 300 RCM, but not by much.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SamC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 18:03
Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by timber timber wrote:

Agreed.  I hope I don't get flamed for this but I like the RCM's better than the WSM's.  I'd love to see either a 270 RCM or 7MM RCM, preferably the latter.  
................Don`t be surprised if Ruger does exactly that. The 300 RCM has a 30 degree shoulder while the 300 WSM has a 35 degree. Even so, I`ve never had a feeding problem with my 300 WSM, as I full size all reloads. The 300 WSM has a little more case capacity than the 300 RCM, but not by much.
 
 
 
 
I've read internet stories of WSM feeding problems but FWIW, all 300 WSM rounds feed flawlessly through my Remington 700 CDL SF.
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 18:37
Originally posted by loaded4bear loaded4bear wrote:

The stock design on the 85 seems to be the major complaint from what I've heard and read on various forms.  I prefer the 75 style myself, not necessarily because of its monte carlo shape but mainly because the butt end is larger and less narrow than the 85.  The 75 just seemed to shoulder better for me. 



I was intrigued by the "narrower butt" of the 85 vs. previous generation Sakos comments, so I measured them with calipers.  I have 5 Sakos -- two 2-lug AV generation, 2 M75's, and 1 M85.  Guess what?  The butt pads on all of them measures EXACTLY THE SAME -- 0.6" wide at the widest point X 5.1" long.  So, this perception that the 85 has a narrower buttstock than the 75 is just perception.  The 85's buttstock appears narrower because it has a straight comb, lacking the 75's monte carlo hump.  The actual portion of the butt that contacts your shoulder is exactly the same.  Incidentally, the forearm on both models is also about the same width.  On my rifles, the 85 is very slightly wider in the forend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 18:44
Originally posted by SamC SamC wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The 300 RCM has a 30 degree shoulder while the 300 WSM has a 35 degree. Even so, I`ve never had a feeding problem with my 300 WSM, as I full size all reloads. The 300 WSM has a little more case capacity than the 300 RCM, but not by much.
 
 
 
 
I've read internet stories of WSM feeding problems but FWIW, all 300 WSM rounds feed flawlessly through my Remington 700 CDL SF.
Sam


The reports of feeding problems with WSM cartridges are very real.  However, it is not a problem with today's rifles originally chambered for a WSM, where the action is designed around the WSM case.  The problem generally occurs when rifles originally chambered for a standard, .308 case family round are rechambered to a WSM and have the bolt face opened up.  When this is done, the magazine feed rails and ramp have to be altered to the correct geometry to properly feed the short fat cases or you will have a feeding problem.  I learned this lesson the hard way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SamC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 19:15
Ted,
Thanks for the information.
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 20:27
I've got experience with 2 wsm's.  The first is a Kimber 8400 French Walnut in 300wsm.  It fed horribly and was designed from the ground up for wsm cartridges.  I regret it now, but sold that rifle because the feeding was so poor.
 
The next rifle is a Sako 85 in 270wsm.  It feeds flawlessly.  You almost have to check to see if you picked on up or not.  It's that smooth. 
 
As a general rule push feed's handle the wsm's better IMO.  Tikka's feed flawless with wsm's being a single stack magazine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 22:49
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by loaded4bear loaded4bear wrote:

The stock design on the 85 seems to be the major complaint from what I've heard and read on various forms.  I prefer the 75 style myself, not necessarily because of its monte carlo shape but mainly because the butt end is larger and less narrow than the 85.  The 75 just seemed to shoulder better for me. 



I was intrigued by the "narrower butt" of the 85 vs. previous generation Sakos comments, so I measured them with calipers.  I have 5 Sakos -- two 2-lug AV generation, 2 M75's, and 1 M85.  Guess what?  The butt pads on all of them measures EXACTLY THE SAME -- 0.6" wide at the widest point X 5.1" long.  So, this perception that the 85 has a narrower buttstock than the 75 is just perception.  The 85's buttstock appears narrower because it has a straight comb, lacking the 75's monte carlo hump.  The actual portion of the butt that contacts your shoulder is exactly the same.  Incidentally, the forearm on both models is also about the same width.  On my rifles, the 85 is very slightly wider in the forend.


I'm glad you made the measurements and confirmed that the contact area's are the same.  I guess in this case perception is reality.  Maybe it's the lack of the monte carlo that makes the buttstock feel too small?  I don't know.  I just wish Sako would make the contact area larger.  The rifle would look more in proportion in profile with a larger buttstock.  JMHO.  I do know this.  I've compared 700 CDL's to my Sako 85 and the 700's have less felt recoil and I think the larger buttstock/contact area is part of the reason.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 22:52
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by SamC SamC wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The 300 RCM has a 30 degree shoulder while the 300 WSM has a 35 degree. Even so, I`ve never had a feeding problem with my 300 WSM, as I full size all reloads. The 300 WSM has a little more case capacity than the 300 RCM, but not by much.
 
 
 
 
I've read internet stories of WSM feeding problems but FWIW, all 300 WSM rounds feed flawlessly through my Remington 700 CDL SF.
Sam


The reports of feeding problems with WSM cartridges are very real.  However, it is not a problem with today's rifles originally chambered for a WSM, where the action is designed around the WSM case.  The problem generally occurs when rifles originally chambered for a standard, .308 case family round are rechambered to a WSM and have the bolt face opened up.  When this is done, the magazine feed rails and ramp have to be altered to the correct geometry to properly feed the short fat cases or you will have a feeding problem.  I learned this lesson the hard way.


Does the "rebated" rim of the WSM's affect feeding/extracting reliability?  I had a Tikka Hunter 270WSM that functioned fine but I sold it for other reasons.


Edited by timber - March/01/2009 at 22:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loaded4bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 07:34
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by loaded4bear loaded4bear wrote:

The stock design on the 85 seems to be the major complaint from what I've heard and read on various forms.  I prefer the 75 style myself, not necessarily because of its monte carlo shape but mainly because the butt end is larger and less narrow than the 85.  The 75 just seemed to shoulder better for me. 



I was intrigued by the "narrower butt" of the 85 vs. previous generation Sakos comments, so I measured them with calipers.  I have 5 Sakos -- two 2-lug AV generation, 2 M75's, and 1 M85.  Guess what?  The butt pads on all of them measures EXACTLY THE SAME -- 0.6" wide at the widest point X 5.1" long.  So, this perception that the 85 has a narrower buttstock than the 75 is just perception.  The 85's buttstock appears narrower because it has a straight comb, lacking the 75's monte carlo hump.  The actual portion of the butt that contacts your shoulder is exactly the same.  Incidentally, the forearm on both models is also about the same width.  On my rifles, the 85 is very slightly wider in the forend.
 
 
This is very interesting Rifle Dude because many have said, including myself, that the 85 is more narrow in the butt.  I recently had the chance to compare the two and based on visual inspection, the 75 appeared wider.  But I guess the real test is how they felt when shouldered and at least in my case, the 75 is definitely more comfortable.  
 
In any case, I spoke to a high volume out of state Sako dealer and he confirmed some of the rumors that have been floating around.  According to him, Sako is bringing back the 75 stock and they should be available sometime this year or the beginning of next year.  Regardless of what he said, something is going on with the 85 and I guess time will tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 08:26
loaded4bear
 
My suggestion for Sako/Beretta would be to bring back the Optilocks to be included with the rifle if they want to keep jackign up the prices.  They've gone up in price about 40% in the last 4 or 5 years and you now have to buy the Optilocks for $170 if you want em!???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loaded4bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 08:40
Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

loaded4bear
 
My suggestion for Sako/Beretta would be to bring back the Optilocks to be included with the rifle if they want to keep jackign up the prices.  They've gone up in price about 40% in the last 4 or 5 years and you now have to buy the Optilocks for $170 if you want em!???
 
Good point.  Has anyone come out with aftermarket opti's at cheaper prices?  $170 is outrageous!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 09:00
There's a lot of other options but they all have a downside IME.  The ones that have a base use a set screw that mushes down the checkered top of the dovetail.  Leupold's work loose.  Warne's don't always tighten the rear ring fully because Sako changed the dimensions slightly and will not provide Warne with blueprints.  That whole dovetail is a joke IMO.  A proprietary system that they now charge 5 times more to install mounts on than a standard mounting system.  Press release for Finland....Drilled and tapped receivers have been proven for 50 years.  You can join in!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loaded4bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 09:18
You are not the first to express concern about the Sako dovetail, I agree with you 100%.  Do you think that Sako would go through the added expense of re-tooling the dovetail to something more conventional?   Probably not IMO, but you never know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 09:50
I doubt they would change it.  If they do it will be a total overhaul of the action IMO.  The dovetail is a big part in the design, strength and ridgidity of the action.  How about taking away the taper and just notching it to a Weaver style rail?  T/C Icon anyone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 13:14
I haven't handled an A7 but isn't the action the same as the 85 sans the dovetail?  If that is the case Sako could use that, get rid of all the plastic and put it in a nice wood stock.  
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