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Ruger New .45ACP/.45LC Redhawk

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 08:09
mchgnmike View Drop Down
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Dear Ruger,
Great idea but poor execution. What a good revolver that shoots .45 ACP with moon clips and will also shoot .45 Long Colt. Why did you stop there though? Why didn't you lengthen the cylinder to handle .454 Casull or even better go all out and make it long enough for .460 S&W Magnum. I know your revolvers are strong enough to handle the pressure so it shouldn't be an issue. I just see a possibly great revolver FAIL.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 09:38
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I have a 454 Alaskan Guide, I hate that gun.

I don't understand the 45LC in a modern fire arm, but a 45 ACP is interesting, though not entirely convenient.

I wouldn't call it a fail, but a gun with limited application and appeal.

To each, his own.
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454 Casull or 460 S&W with that metal backstrap would not be fun for very long, but definitely has better lines than their 5" Super Redhawk in 454 Casull.  

Would make for a good woods/hunting handgun with the heavier 45 Colt loads but would need Monogrips.  I like the idea of 45 ACP with moon clips for range use, but make sure you have a good mooner/demooner tool.

Looking to have the cylinders on both my Ruger Alaskan and Schofield clone cut for moonclips.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 12:00
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With that short of a barrel a .454 casull or 460 is really pointless.  You can't even get close to the velocities they are capable of.  Really you can get the same velocities out of hot .45 colt loads with a short barrel in regards to the .454, I bet the .460 would be a similar loss on the velocity.      
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 12:57
mchgnmike View Drop Down
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Why would a short barrel be pointless? Yes, there would be some loss of velocity and energy but you would still have a more velocity and energy than what the .45 Long Colt can offer. What isn't pointless is having the ability to shoot four different calibers in one revolver. 

Granted a longer barrel would provided better velocity, energy and accuracy (long sight radius) but if that is really the issue then buy the S&W Model 460 XVR with the 14" barrel. You won't be able to shoot .45 ACP out of it though. Also, if the short barrel is so pointless then why are these offered by manufacturers?
Freedom Arms .454 Casull, .475 Linebaugh and .500 Wyoming Express all can be had with 4.75" barrels.
S&W 460 XVR in 3.5" barrel.

Beside I prefer revolvers that have 4.5-5" barrel anyways because I like to carry mine as a sidearm when hunting. Anything with a barrel longer than that just gets in the way in my opinion.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 13:26
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Challenge of portability vs power.

In my Ruger Alaskan with my favorite 360 gr WFNGC woods load, the velocity reduction is around 300-350 fps.  Out of a 7 1/2 barrel, the Double Tap and Buffalo Bore ammo is rated for around 1450-1500 fps and I'm getting between 1125 to 1150 out of the short barrel Alaskan.

My Alaskan isn't a hunting revolver, but nice to have that combination of easy carry and power.  For a hunting revolver, I prefer something around a 5" barrel.  7 1/2" barrels are just too long for my tastes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 13:27
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My Alaskan barrel is 3", I think, and it is anything but pointless: if the bullet doesn't find its mark, the concussion will still probably kill the threat, if not knock it out so I can hit it with a stick.

"Pointless" is relative.  These weapons, when used for their intended purpose, aren't about extracting every possible efficiency from the caliber, they are all about cramming as much punch into as small a package as possible.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 13:32
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Originally posted by mchgnmike mchgnmike wrote:

Why would a short barrel be pointless? Yes, there would be some loss of velocity and energy but you would still have a more velocity and energy than what the .45 Long Colt can offer. What isn't pointless is having the ability to shoot four different calibers in one revolver. 

Granted a longer barrel would provided better velocity, energy and accuracy (long sight radius) but if that is really the issue then buy the S&W Model 460 XVR with the 14" barrel. You won't be able to shoot .45 ACP out of it though. Also, if the short barrel is so pointless then why are these offered by manufacturers?
Freedom Arms .454 Casull, .475 Linebaugh and .500 Wyoming Express all can be had with 4.75" barrels.
S&W 460 XVR in 3.5" barrel.

Beside I prefer revolvers that have 4.5-5" barrel anyways because I like to carry mine as a sidearm when hunting. Anything with a barrel longer than that just gets in the way in my opinion.


You made my point perfectly.  A long barrel is where you are going to see the benefit of those bigger calibers.  But longer barrels suck to carry for multiple reasons.  In the short barrels you will get negligible advantage over the hot .45colt.  I have owned two different .454 and two different 45colts.  With the 5 inch barrel there was very little advantage in velocity over a heavy 45 colt and a .454.  IIRC is was only 100 fps or so.  But the recoil and kaboom coming out of the .454 was huge.  I ended up with a Redhawk in .45 colt.  I can get around 1250 fps with a 300 grain bullet.  And its a smaller gun to carry and has less recoil to deal with. 

I am all about the big magnums and think they are fun.  But for a shorter barreled gun they just don't offer that much advantage if you consider the tradeoffs. 

Plus in regards to the Ruger you are talking about.  The one you posted in a Redhawk.  The 454 is a super redhawk.  So you jump in is size of the gun quite a bit to be able to handle the additional kaboom of the .454. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 13:40
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


"Pointless" is relative.  These weapons, when used for their intended purpose, aren't about extracting every possible efficiency from the caliber, they are all about cramming as much punch into as small a package as possible.




But when you can get that same punch out of a over all smaller, lighter, and less recoiling revolver "pointless" has a bit more meaning.  Meaning its pointless to pay extra for gun, ammo, deal with recoil, muzzle flash, etc etc. 

Just my opinion for sure.  But that is after shooting a lot of .454 and .45 colt rounds over the years.  I got my first .454 when I was 22.  I have shot those two calibers a lot and decided unless you want to carry the long barrel they bigger boys really are pointless vs the .45colt
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 13:50
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And by the way I do completely agree about the cool factor in having multiple calibers.  Think .45 acp, 45 colt, .454, 460 and 410 shotgun.  That would be a neat package for sure. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 15:45
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We'll agree to disagree.  When I am in bear country, I used to carry a 5" 44 mag with hot rounds, now I carry the Alaskan with hot rounds.  When I need it most, I will be okay with the recoil, the alternative will be far worse.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 17:42
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This is a dumb question but I have to ask for ignorance sake.


How many Deadly Predators are downed with a sidearm each year?  (the one used as back up not the primary hunting weapon?)

How many are scared away? 

How many are wounded? 

The important question... How many people are attacked by these predators???

How many actually get hurt?

How many die?



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 19:11
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No idea. However, my trips are not hunting trips, there is no primary weapon, only a defensive weapon.

And the numbers matter not to me. I know how good a shot most people are, so how they do in a given circumstance has little bearing on how I will do.

Then again, I may end up bear poop. But it will be once all rounds are expended, and after I have attempted to bludgeon the beast with the empty gun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 20:35
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A pistol class i took once they had a lecture on a bear defensive handgun. They recommnded double action and told a story about a guy who had a single action under stress he did not get it cocked right away. Finally was able to shoot as the bear was on him. They said the bear got ahold of it in his mouth and bit down so hard it left the gun unusable and huge teeth marks in it.

That is crazy to think how strong their jaws are.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 21:08
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If your point, Tool, is training, training, and more training, I agree. If your point is don't carry a single action because some other guy didn't train, I'll take issue with that.

In the end, we are way down a rabbit hole, arguing changes nothing, and the revolver is still a 45ACP/LC.

Edited by Rancid Coolaid - June/17/2015 at 09:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 21:52
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There was no point other than how dangerous bears can be. Just a story i was told and was sharing. You can take it and twist my meaning however you would like, as is your norm

I have no desire or intent to argue, I am just talking revos and calibers. Which i quite enjoy. If u want to take all this as argument have at it.

Oh and thanks for pointing out that i'm a "tool". Your such a swell guy when u get all worked up.     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2015 at 22:58
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After owning and shooting a field grade 6 1/2" .454 for about 18 months and trying to use it as a side arm in a belt holster for hunting, I sent it to FA to shorten to 4.75", fit a .45 Colt cylinder to accomodate 340/360 GC hard cast bullets and install express sights.  Much easier to get in and out of a truck and way more comfortable driving and riding.  That's how I used it for the rest of the time I was in WY.  To me, the high pressure .454 Casull is a brutal caliber to shoot and in a FA revolver the short cylinder pretty much limits one to 300 grain bullets which is where the .45 Colt case comes into play for a modern day solution.  We hunted in big bear country and everyone I knew packed a large caliber sidearm with heavy bullet loads just in case.  Not an ideal solution if you got unlucky with a big bear but better than a knife or a makeshift club.  If I was a handgun hunter I'd opt for long barrels to generate velocities and stretch effective ranges.  In the end to each his own.  I just prefer the balance and aesthetics of short barreled revolvers and accept that I'm giving up some horsepower.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2015 at 09:46
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Wait, wait, wait; don't make me the bad guy on this.

This was yours:
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

With that short of a barrel a .454 casull or 460 is really pointless.       

And this one:
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

A pistol class i took once they had a lecture on a bear defensive handgun. They recommnded double action and told a story about a guy who had a single action under stress he did not get it cocked right away. Finally was able to shoot as the bear was on him. They said the bear got ahold of it in his mouth and bit down so hard it left the gun unusable and huge teeth marks in it. 

That is crazy to think how strong their jaws are.

I am not twisting anything.  Quite to the contrary, I even listed the 2 possible interpretations of your comment and vehemently agreed with one  - and disagreed with the one that you say was not the point anyway.

And I referred to you as Tool because:
1.  It is quite common to truncate names on the forum, and that is a part of your chosen name.
2.  I don't use member's first names in posts out here - Humperdink

I do indeed enjoy grammatical acrobatics from time to time, but this wasn't one of them.  In rereading my post, it was not divisive, and even had a conciliatory tone (I tried to get us back to the original poster's topic.) At no time was I worked up, it was always civil from my side.

If you or anyone else took my tone or content to be anything but cordial and conversational, I apologize, that was not my intent.

Carry on.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2015 at 10:52
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Back in the stone age,when the police carried wheel guns, we were limited to either .38spl or .44spl. I carried a 6" S&W 629. I figured since I couldn't carry a .357Magnum, I'd opt for the big bullet. I started off carrying reloads which was forbidden, but the only .44spl available at the time was a 246gr lead round nose at 750fps. I figured I could probably get away with a 250gr SWC at 1,000fps. Later on better factory ammo came out and I switched to that instead of my reloads. I carried 4 speed loaders on my duty belt with a couple more speed loaders and a box of ammo in the car. I also hunted deer with that 629, and factory 240gr 44Magnums was the norm there.
Now if I was still carrying a wheel gun, this Ruger would look interesting. 45ACP in moon clips for fast reloads and 45LC for more power and penetration if needed, and in a decent barrel length.
Ya know, I really didn't mind switching to a 9mm or a 40S&W with 46 rounds of ammo (not counting what I carried in the car).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2015 at 11:01
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You guys are something.............. diesel and fertilizer!!! Maybe you should avoid mixin on the same threads. Or take your friction to PM's. These posts are for offering your experience, knowledge and "wisdom" for those who are lookin it. You are both my brothers on the OT but you might need to do like my own brother and I do. Live in different states and keep contact to a minimum. We get along great!!
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OR... we could JOIN them and call them RANCID_TOOL...


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2015 at 13:16
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I like the lines of the Redhawk and the round butt pictured is even better, far better than the Super Redhawk. For me, I would be happy to have that gun in .454 Casull for use with the .45 LC.
As for barrel lengths, I have large bore mags in 7  1/2", 6" and 4". The 4" M29 is sweet to carry vs the Redhawk or FA83. But it all comes down to having a Roscoe or not having one. If you look like food you will be eaten, I refuse to be food.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2015 at 14:03
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I apologize for jabbing at you Rancid.

I wasn't trying to dog anyone's choice in caliber or firearm.  I was just simply stating my opinion.  If my choice of word "pointless" offended, that was not my intent to offend.  That is just the best word for me to describe my opinion on short barred .454 vs a 45 lc. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2015 at 14:58
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This reminded me of a story I once heard where a guy planning a trip to grizzly country in Alaska asked an instructor what kind of a handgun he should have with him just in case.

The instructor answered that he should be looking at he smallest possible form factor with as few external protrusions as possible.  After facing a rather shocked look, he explained that when a pissed off grizzly shoves that handgun up his ass, it is important for it to be able to go in as smoothly as possible.

The serious answer, of course, is that it should be the largest and most powerful handgun that you are willing to have with you at all time and that you can do enough training with to operate under stress.

Since I know I do not train enough, most of the guns mentioned here would not be a good fit for me.  454 Casull requires training and familiarity as does everything bigger than that.

If I ever end up having to go to Alaska, I will have to make that decision and I do not yet know which way I am going to go with it.

I am planning to get a Freedom Arms revolver some time this year, but that will be a long barrel piece.  I have been sorta interested in handgun hunting lately, and I am thinking of getting a FA 97 with a 7.5" barrel.  Perhaps, after that I'll procure a short barrel DA revolver chambered for the same cartridge to have some consistency.

One problem that I have is that my hands are somewhat on the small side, so most large frame DA revolvers are a touch too big for comfortable trigger reach for me.

I have on revolver built on a Smith N-frame and with slim grips I can kinda make it work.  However, Ruger Redhawk does not fit me and Super Redhawk, while oddly enough is a little better, is still not great.

What I need is for someone to make medium frame five shot revolver that can handle 41Mag or 44Mag.

ILya
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

This is a dumb question but I have to ask for ignorance sake.


How many Deadly Predators are downed with a sidearm each year?  (the one used as back up not the primary hunting weapon?)

How many are scared away? 

How many are wounded? 

The important question... How many people are attacked by these predators???

How many actually get hurt?

How many die?





I can't answer all (any) of your questions, but I can tell you why I carry.

My dad was attacked by a black bear in 2006.  He was bow hunting in colorado and wasn't carrying.  He was backing away from the bear when he stumbled, and the bear charged him while he was on the ground.  He found a stick, and fought the bear off after getting his head and shoulder slashed open.  He credits his survival with growing up on a farm and knowing to jab the bear in the mouth/nose instead of trying to whack him.

The bear finally decided he wasn't worth the effort and ran off.  Dad survived.  That night in the hospital in Grand Junction the Federal and State Game Wardens told him in the same area of the Uncomphagre there was another attack, but that they had to "piece" the scenario together.

Now he carries, and will only bow hunt in a state that has reciprocity so he can carry his own weapon to and from.  He and I both carry .41 Mag with hot 250gr hard cast lead (bear tooth bullets) loads.  I had never even given it much thought in black bear country, but after what happened to him, I'd rather be ready than unprepared.
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