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RONK needs handgun advice.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 10:00
RONK View Drop Down
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 Okay Guys, I am now going to purchase a new handgun. I've owned a 1911 Colt Combat Commander and shot quite a few revolvers over the years, but I want something a little different this time.  Primarily a rifleman, I know virtually nothing about handguns.
 
Here are the parameters, but not set in stone:
 Semi-Auto, preferably 10+ round capacity?
 I'm pretty good sized, 6-4, 190.  (Solid muscle, BTW.Bucky ). Big hands, long fingers.
 Thinking .45 ACP. or possibly 10mm. Full-size, Must be carryable, but concealability is not so important for my needs at this time.
 I will reload.
 Not real worried about recoil, as long as it's less than .44 magnum level in a Redhawk-class revolver would be.
 Since it will be purchased as a plinker but with potential use as a defensive weapon, I've ruled out the 9mms for stopping power concerns.  Is that a mistake? (My plinking ammo will be light loads if I go .45 or 10mm.)
 I have made a resolution to shoot it a lot, so durability is very important.
 $650 or less preferred, but will go higher for good reason if I need to.
So far my list looks like this:
 
 Springfield XD 5-inch. Really like the way this one feels in my hand.
 Glock, not sure what model. (Any thoughts?)
 H&K USP.  I need to research this one more. I've heard good things, esp. accuracy and reliability. May be getting too expensive (?)
 S&W,  M&P Fairly new, anybody know anything about them?
 I'd really appreciate ANY advice you guys could give me.  Thank you!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 10:02
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springfield or glock if you can afford a h&k they are very nice, sounds like you need a glock to me though! we have a thread here about this same subject somewhere i was involved with it just gotta find it again
i know this one says glock but its got a lot of good info!


Edited by pyro6999 - February/21/2008 at 10:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 10:16
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There are four automatic handguns that I would own.  I have had about 15 different kinds and brands in the last 5 years and have settled on 4 that I consider very good handguns. 

1st a good 1911.  Second a Glock, third a XD and 4th an M&P. 
I owned the XD .45 5" and a .40 4" and they were superb handguns, I actually really liked them, but I sold them both and bought to Glock 23's.  My reason for that is the 23 is much more concealable, and I like the glock trigger better.  The trigger on a XD is mushy and the reset sucks ass.  But those can be fixed if you send it in and are supposed to be awesome.  I have only shot an M&P a little, but have a lot of trigger time behind a 1911, a Glock and an XD and highly recommend any of them.

For the Glock I would go with a Glock 21SF in .45 or a Glock 20SF in 10mm. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 10:30
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Regarding the 9mm, the difference in S.D. performance in top rounds in your listed calibers is very little. To all the people that have been shot with the 9mm, "Get up, your not dead".
I have all the auto cartridges listed. Some are in Glocks and HK USP's. The HK is a nicer pistol. The quality of the machining is much better than the Glock. It has more trigger choices. It has a higher bore axis than the Glock, but recoil is still not a problem. That is because they use a recoil reducing system that is very effective. It is also more expensive than the Glock.
The Glock out sells every auto pistol made and it isn't just because they are cost effective. I have never had a misifire in any caliber. There are parts everywhere and the magazines are under $20, the HK's are $50. The grip angle is a bit different than the 1911 you are used to, but that is an easy adjustment for most.
The Glock is also available in 10mm which is the most powerful and versatile caliber on the list. It is also the most expensive to shoot for the non-reloader. If you want factory ammo I suggest Double-Tap.
If you don't need the 10mm for SD and woods carry, either of the other two would work. If I could only keep one of my auto pistols it would be the Glock 19 with the Glock 17 a very close second.


Edited by tahqua - February/21/2008 at 10:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 10:32
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If you choose the HK, make sure to get one of their configurations where the trigger pull will be the same all the time.  Either the double action only or the single action only.  If you get a double/single you can expect to spend 2 to 3 times the amount of training time to get as good with it as with a gun that has a consistent trigger pull.  Almost every handgun class I have taken were someone was using a double single, by the time the class was over they had decided to sell it and buy a Glock.  It is just so much more difficult to master.

In my opinion recoil on any of these is so small it should not be a concern.  If you shoot the weaver stance and use the push/pull grip on the gun you can completely control the recoil and have no problems at all.  If you do it properly your sights are only going to raise an inch or two per shot.


Edited by supertool73 - February/21/2008 at 10:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 10:37
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My buddy who has BIG hands really likes the Sig Sauer P229.  These are available in 9mm, 
40 S&W and .357 SIG.  He has a cousin that's in the Secret Service and he uses a SIG also and his life depends on it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 10:48
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

He has a cousin that's in the Secret Service and he uses a SIG also and his life depends on it.

Thats because that is the only choice the secret service has.  Some politician decided that they were not capable of using a gun that has a single action first trigger pull because they may accidentally shoot someone.  Thumbs%20Down  Probably some of the most highly trained handgunners out there and they are still not trusted. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 10:50
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thats the govt for ya!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 11:12
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 Thanks for the great responses, Fellas!
  I'm learning here!
 Good link, Pyro, I'll study it further in a few minutes. Thanks again!
 Supertool, thanks especially for your thoughts, I was hoping you would respond, as I know that you have a good deal of formal training and a strong interest in such matters.  I had not thought much about the SA/DA training time issue, but I want simplicity here, so I will put more consideration to that.
 Tahqua, if you could choose only one would you go with  a 9mm, .45 ACP or 10 mm?(reloading for economy). First choice for a Bang-Flop happy- ending on a hostile 250 pound mammal?
 Tip69, I thought about a Sig p220(?) in .45 ACP, but I've read that the fit and finish quality has really taken a nosedive in the last couple of years, so I kind of ruled them out, also I think capacity is lower, 8+1 maybe. Not sure, will check further.
 Anybody have a ballpark price on a H&K USP, if only so I can rule it out?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 11:14
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looks like a min of $700 on gun broker for one
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 11:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 11:24
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I selected the 9mm because the ammo is cheap and everywhere. I certainly like the Glocks in .45 and 10mm, too.
For all around use including the trail the 10mm is excellent. It is flatter then my .357 and hits just as hard. My Glock 20 is constantly on my hip when up in dah U.P. and in cool weather down state. Otherwise I pack the G-19.
I own Walthers, BHP's and 1911's plus the HK's. I carry the Glocks.
Here's some USP prices
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 11:38
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

looks like a min of $700 on gun broker for one
 
 Hmmm.... not really a deal breaker, but with transfer fees, etc. it's getting pretty close.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 11:51
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I don't have much experience with the glocks, so I can't compare them to the XD, but I can recommend the Springfeild XD.  My brother bought one over Christmas, and it was a nice gun to shoot.  Not as good as my 1911, but still a nice gun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 11:56
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 I forgot to mention that I may wish to mount a light or laser in the future.  Do any of these guns' rail systems work better than others?  I notice that some have a cross-slot or two, (Picatinny spec?), but the H&K has grooves only.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:03
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I actually prefer the laser grips (crimson trace),  instead of putting it on the rail.  as for the actual rail, don't know enough about them to comment on which is best.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:05
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

I don't have much experience with the glocks, so I can't compare them to the XD, but I can recommend the Springfeild XD.  My brother bought one over Christmas, and it was a nice gun to shoot.  Not as good as my 1911, but still a nice gun.
 
 What caliber did he get, and how accurate does it appear to be, Helo?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:12
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We didn't shoot any targets.  We were shooting cans, and I guess I would say we were hitting a pop can at 20 yards 50-60% of the time.  That was without adjustable sights, so if you took the time to sit down and adjust them or put adjustable sights on it, it would be even better.  He bought a 45 apc 5in tactcal version.  I am not a big fan of the short barrel version unless it is exclusively for concealed carry.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:21
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

I actually prefer the laser grips (crimson trace),  instead of putting it on the rail.  as for the actual rail, don't know enough about them to comment on which is best.
 
 I'm gonna guess that your preference toward a grip-mounted Crimson Trace is because of easy on/off access, or are there other reasons?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:30
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You are correct sir.  The only other option (that i know of) for my 1911 (no rail on it) is to put one in where the guide rod is, and that idea doesn't appeal to me.  I am sure the rail mounted lasers or laser/flashlight combos work fine.  another reason i like the grip laser is that it doesn't affect the balance of the weapon.  to me the 1911 feels well balanced and i don't really want to move the balance forward.
 
with the xd, it might not hurt to have a little more weight forward, as the balance felt a little further back on it.  just my feelings, and remember that i have only played with it a little, so take my opinions with a couple grains of salt.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:31
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XDs, Glocks and M&Ps will all mount the standard light/lasers on the rail, they pop right on and off.  Accuracy on the 3 will be about 4 inches at 25 yards.  I believe that is the guarantee, maybe better if you are lucky.  Realistically you should not need or expect better than hand span sized groups with a production pistol.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 13:06
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

XDs, Glocks and M&Ps will all mount the standard light/lasers on the rail, they pop right on and off.  Accuracy on the 3 will be about 4 inches at 25 yards.  I believe that is the guarantee, maybe better if you are lucky.  Realistically you should not need or expect better than hand span sized groups with a production pistol.
 
 Yeah, that's about what I was thinking to expect for accuracy, although I'd still hope to get a good one that might do a little better!
 Anybody know if the  XD, Glock and Mp rails are the same geometry/dimensions  as a Picatinny scope base? Not that it REALLY matters, but I am curious.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 13:10
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I use my light on my glocks and on the XDs when I had them and it also fits the picatinny rail on my AR with no problems at all.  If that is what you was asking.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 13:45
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 Yes, that is what I wanted to know. I thought it might be so, but wasn't sure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 14:04
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two really good buys in 19ll's types are the new taurus and kimber pro tenll, in 45 ACP, If you, as posted, are going to reload the mod.38 glock GAP is one of the best shooting/carrying guns to come along.
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