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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2005 at 12:25
rslamiroult View Drop Down
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just wondering if anyone has experience with rock river. how do they compare to bushmaster ,colt etc. the elite car a4 in particular
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2005 at 13:52
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I think most are better than Colt.  Colts are good for collecting, Rock River is good for using.  Rock River is one of the few ar's authorized by most police departments for their officers to buy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2005 at 20:16
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Rock River Arms, Bushmaster, & DPMS are all quality made entry AR platforms. Of the three only Bushmaster uses 4150 ord steel chrome lined barrel's, which I believe (if memory service me correctly) are made by Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT). Any of those three manufacturers rifles will give you years of dependable service & all three companies have great customer service.

On the higher end of the market is Lauer Custom Weapons, Wilson Combat, & Les Baer. I don't use Colt products unless a customer requests them specifically. This is mainly due to personal reasons but I have noticed a decline in their customer service and quality control over the past 10 yrs.

The RRA elite car A4 is over all a descent entry level carbine. It has a Wilson barrel, NAT MTCH 2 stage trigger, removable carry handle, forged upper and lower receiver. On the negative side it dosent have M4 feed ramps, look over the telescoping stock real well before you buy it. Ive seen alot of play in some brand new RRA 6 position telescopic stocks, it has a fixed front sight, and the carry handle that it comes with will be tough to co-witness (in the lower 1/3), or it will seriously raise you cheek to stockweld. An A2 flash hider, (there are much better designs on the market).  If you go with it I'd recommend the following things

1. Lose that carry handle (put it on e-bay for $30 less than RRA sells them and recoup some $.

2. Get a Troy or ARMS rear BUIS.

3. Get an Ergo grip. (you will appreciate the difference if you use it a lot)

4. If the stock becomes loose or rattles a lot replace with a Magpul M93A2 or M93B, or if you like the M4 style get one from Bushmaster or one from CMT.

5. Get a YHM Phantom or Vortex flash hider

In my personal opinion buy a lower receiver & build your own so you will get exactly what you want the first time (barrel length, flashider, upper receiver, bolt carrier group, trigger, stock, & sights) set up to my personal preferences. Dont get me wrong there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that rifle. It will be accurate, reliable, and a lot of fun to shoot. Its just after you use one long enough you know what and where they need to be tweaked to add a little extra comfort, durability, and longivity. If you ever have questions on setting up an AR or about aftermarket parts for one drop me a line.

 

Joe



Edited by dilligaf
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2005 at 01:16
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hey dilligaf. i chose rra because i'm not rich but i want a second ar-15. is there another you suggest? if not, what seperate parts should i use (lowers,uppers) to put together a nice ar for less.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2005 at 16:11
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If your not in a rush to get it. You can get a stripped lower receiver from Lauer Custom Weapons for $120 (they are renamed LMT forged receivers) Or if your leary about putting the internals in one you can buy a complete lower receiver minus buttstock from Bushmaster or DPMS for about $225 - $250 (but you need to go through a FFL for all lower receivers).

Then watch the equipment exchange section on www.ar15.com. You can find some really good deals on quality parts from reputable dealers in there. I can personally recommend Grant from G&R Tactical (www.GRTactical.com) (757) 483-0654 & John Hwang from Tactical Solutions(www.nwtactical.net) (253) 893-0101. I have done a lot of business with both of these guys and they are squared away.

 

Or some buy a Bushmaster or DPMS complete lower minus the stock, buy a Bushmaster or DPMS complete upper from $500 to about $525, and get a complete CMT six position stock kit for about $80 and end up getting their rifle for around $830. The nice thing about doing it this way is you only pay the GOV FET (tax) on the lower which costs much less than a complete rifle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2005 at 17:00
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http://www.calssportingarmory.com/stagarms.htm

 

Stag Arms builds a nice piece, according to some of it's owners. It's priced lower than a lot of Colt's, BM, etc. too

 

Thanks for the AR reviews, Joe.

 

I'm fond of Bushmaster's for some reason.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2005 at 17:46
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May be a little off but do you know who makes the new M16A4's.  It aint Colt.

 

Try FNH USA.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2005 at 19:30
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I don't know of Colt making anything but M4s since the lat 80s.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2005 at 17:10
dilligaf View Drop Down
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Cheaptrick,

I've only seen one Stag lower and it was cast not forged. It will do the same thing but there is no way it will be to the same tolerance as a quality forged receiver. Since the receiver is one of the primary building blocks for accuracy and reliability it is not a good place to to cut corners. Personally if I was building something for myself I'd go with Lewis Machine and Tool for upper and lower receiver, they are the Badger Ord of AR receivers.



Edited by dilligaf
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2005 at 18:14
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Thanks for the intel, Joe.

 

I have only read a couple of reviews from very satisfied owners.

I'll probably stick with BM for now. Or like you, build my own.

 

That LMT stuff is the heat! I had a 2 stage LMT trigger that was very nice.

The uppers are very well made too, as you said.

 

"The Badger Ord of receivers" Nuff said!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2005 at 22:30
dilligaf View Drop Down
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Was just on Lauers site and they have stripped lowers (called a friend and he said they are LMT's with Lauers name on it) for $99!!!!!!! I'm going to have to go and order some here in a minute. Just thought I'd give you all a heads up.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2005 at 00:03
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hey dilligaf. a few more questions starting with a dumb one; what does nbsp mean? i live in new york and that means the six position stock won't come with the rifle. do you know off hand if i can purchase that magpul or cmt stock in ny since they both are telescoping. are bushy and dpms a better made rifle than rra? i have a bushy and a dpms(ar-10) and love them both but the rra caught my eye because i would like a mid-length handguard(not imperative though) and all the hype on the dea model doing so well. if i build my own i'm not confident enough to pick out all the internals on my own. do i really need the special bolt carrier assembly as opposed to the standard for plinking , home defense and entry tactical classes? lastly - rear buis and aimpoint mounts-arms,gg&g, or larue. thanks joe -sorry to bother you
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2005 at 21:36
dilligaf View Drop Down
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Brother your questions are not a bother. I wish more people would take the time and effort to gather enough info to make an informed descision before making a purchase.  

That RRA will be accurate, reliable, and a lot of fun. The best way to put into perspective is a gov 1911 vs a Les Baer 1911. Both put 230's down range with more than enough accuracy to do the job, both will be fun to shoot, & both will last a life time. Its when you start using it daily and on a profesional level that the short comings of the gov 1911 become more noticeable and the enhancements on a custom rig more appreciated.

That RRA will give you a life time of fun If thats what you want go get it. If you want a mid length handguard get another upper and put in on an existing lower. Thats one of the beautiful things about an AR. It can be changed to suit your needs. 

 

 

For mounts, I dont like the Aimpoint mounts, stick with ARMS or Larue They are the best IMO.

 

No, you dont need the enhanced bolt carrier group. No one knew their bolt was "inferior" until someone made an enhanced version. We carried standard bolts for most of my adult life and never had a problem. If its a carbine I would recommend a heavier M4 buffer. It will aid in relability or some guys have been raving about using the 9mm AR buffer.

 

Rear BUIS, this will get me into hot water but ARMS and Troy are the ones I seen the leaste amount of trouble with. I had an ARMS 40, never had a problem with it but switched to a Troy (still not on my rifle yet) when my son borrowed my ARMS 40. DPMS makes a mongrol (not spelled right, its named after a dark age seige engine) some guys really seem to like them.

 

As far a telescoping stock, I dont know what the laws are in NY. You need to check with your local law enforcement office.  

 

Joe

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2005 at 16:42
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Cheaptrick and all us LH shooters will be interested about this.

 

Was watching American Rifleman TV and they advertised and shot a new M-4 made by DPMS.

 

16.25" barrell, A3 upper alluminum forged w/ detachable carry handle alluminum forged lower w/ amidextrious selector switch and mag release, bayonet lug, threaded muzzle, six position collapsable stock.

 

MSRP $859.00

 

Pretty good if I say so myself

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2005 at 19:53
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Mithran.

 

Was that MRSP with  the FET included? I went to DPMS but didnt see it.

 

Joe

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2005 at 20:45
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Originally posted by Mithran Mithran wrote:

Cheaptrick and all us LH shooters will be interested about this.

 

Was watching American Rifleman TV and they advertised and shot a new M-4 made by DPMS.

 

16.25" barrell, A3 upper alluminum forged w/ detachable carry handle alluminum forged lower w/ amidextrious selector switch and mag release, bayonet lug, threaded muzzle, six position collapsable stock.

 

MSRP $859.00

 

Pretty good if I say so myself

 

I'd like to see and hear more about this. That's a great price on a DPMS M4.

 

Joe, can you comment on this weapon??

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2005 at 11:37
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I'm not entirly sure about the name but it might be the AP4 or something like that.  I'll try and look.  You know how it is though and sometimes G&A and AR show re-runs.  Hell the G&A episode that came on after American Rifleman talked about the Bush vs. Kerry election (who was pro gun and who was not).\

 

This leads me to believe that maybe that AR episode was older and DPMS might not have that rifle any more.  I'll check and edit and include a link in here if I find it.

 

Joe, I'm not sure.

 

Edit=  I couldn't find it either.  Maybe that episode of American Rifleman was a brand new one and DPMS hasn't put the rifle on their website yet.  It had to be because that rifle is the first production AR I've ever seen with amidextrious mag release and selector switch.  How hard would it be to put one on your AR anyway?  I'm sure I've seen amidextrious kits out there somewhere.  I do know the new SAMR's the USMC (same rifle as the SPR the Army has) had amidextrious mag releases on them, so they have to be available.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2005 at 17:46
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Cheaptrick,

DPMS makes an outstanding product, is sold at a reasonable price, & they have excellent customer service (I have never had to send anything back to them but they are always polite when I call with questions about a product) I actually think their stock triggers don't feel as gritty as Bushmasters stock triggers. Dont get me wrong both have great triggers for a battle rifle. I'm just spoiled from the trigger on my M4. I did a side by side comparison (DPMS vs. Bushmaster new lowers) when I went to get a dedicated lower for my .50 Beowolfe. With my eyes shut I did a function test on both and the DPMS trigger just felt cleaner.  Other than that the fit and finish of both compaines lowers were great. The DPMS lower I have is still totally stock and it functions flawlessly.

 

Mithran,

 

I've seen the ambi selector switch and mag release I put them on a guys rifle about a year ago, but cant for the life of me remember where he had gotten them. They were easy to install. The selector was 2 piece if I remember right. Just looked in the BM parts catalog and they stock both the ambi mag release for $89.95 and the selector for $34.95. They look like the same ones that I installed. Remember to get the detent pin out of the selector you have to take the grip off, remove the spring, and most times lightly tap the receiver to get the detent out. When you dgo to reinstall the detent goes in pointy end first (Dont mean to sound condescending but I've had two rifles in within the past year for that very reason).

 

Joe

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2005 at 18:07
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Thanks, Joe.

 

Mithran:

 

The only thing I have been able to find on a LH DPMS, is this one. It's a A2, 20" barrel, and not really what you described. Not a M4 either.

 

That's NOT to say they don't have one though. It's a right handed world, buddy!! 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2005 at 00:39
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I'm not really shopping, yet.  I just threw it out there when I saw it.  I won't buy one until I get out of California.  I am saving up though because DPMS has a 6.8mm SPC upper that I saw on another site that looks oh so good.  And by that time Trijicon will have probably made a new ACOG cammed for 6.8 SPC.  Or an EoTech.

 

Joe - How did that ACOG class go by the way?  It's all your fault too because I fit almost all the criteria for your discount group and I've already painted my bolt rifle.  Prior military, EMT, OT member, and am either going for LE or FD.  With all that I could Dura Coat myself and I won't have to build a ghille suit.  Joking, common ya'll.  That's supposed to be funny right?

          

 

It's either that or a M14 SOCOM.  The 5.56 round is awsome I just want something a little bigger.  Why hasn't anyone opened up a thread about those two calibers?

 

cheaptrick - Yeah too bad, but I manage just fine, as I'm sure you do.

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