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Robert Goulet - What Kind of Fool Am I

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 09:56
338WINMAG View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Someone mentioned in another forum --> "I really wonder if you could shoot smaller groups with rifles that have $3000 scopes than with the PSTs"."

How about even with a $700.00 scope as well???

I have a 6-20x50mm. (i bought a 50mm only for resale and not the BS that carries on with the bigger objective - do your serious research) Just your standard $459.00 scope. (I even wonder sometimes about that cost) I also have a $199.00 3-9x40mm that did the job perectly as well.

I never have shot a long distance shot over 400. If I ever do, It will only be a few yards past if any. I believe most people fall into that category if not even a lesser range category.

Long story short .... I don't at all like cost justification of "supply and demand". If a product is set at $500.00, then the product should be ""worth"" $500.00 because of parts, labor, and "honest inventor's profit". Not because of hype, product availability limitations, or owner greed.

I don't like at all "whatever the market will bare" crap either. Extortion is a wrotten customer service and no matter how hard you try to convince me it is the best economics in the world, you will never do so.

I worked in manufacturing for almost 12 solid years and watched lies and 1/4 truths go out the door as if it is "the right thing to do" in sales. I heard the words "competitive market" and "weak profit margins" used to justify price gouging only to really mean lots and lots of money for the few at the top while the workers are given just enough to make themselves think they too one day can get that "lying money". If you could only be a fly on the wall, you would then likely agree and really see for yourself, but otherwise it is hard to believe such hypocrisy because they cover it up so well with words.

Compared to the cheaper $200.00 and $100.00 scopes, the scope I have is a little better "maybe" because it can withstand a hot 338 win mag punch and the glass is a little clearer but.......

.....boy does this market sure love watching these forums help them exploit the hunters making many believe those $700.00 to $3000.00 product prices are so so so justified with the "end result experience". Yup my elk, deer and bear tell me every year how they wished I had used a more expensive scope on them. It would have killed them quicker, better and more accurately.

The generation to generation myth that you should spend at least the same amount of money on your scope as your rifle cost continues to get repeated.

Yup, keep making those products "Not in the USA" and tell us when we spend our very hard earned "little" dollars that you could not make the products with our own USA labor because "we cost too much in salaries to justify your modest $900.00 -$3000.00 scope profit margins.

"We" think we are so intelligent and believe no one is going to hood wink us and pull the wool over our eyes yet we buy into the --> see a few prototype products, advertise that they are the best thing ever, get some forum hype going and get us all to believe they"are in the process of making them" but it will be a year out before we can deliver.

Maybe if we would just remember the true objective was to enjoy the fun and the excitement and not keep the extorting manufacturing CEOs and upper executives living high off our hard earned money.

P.S. I have a bridge to see ya. ;)

Everyone all together now sing.. "what kind of fool am I"

Signed

Not a bitter ole man, just a common sense one

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 10:21
Vermin93 View Drop Down
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I'd like to be the first to welcome Ralph Nader to the OT!

Ralph - please do us a favor and tell us which scope manufacturer(s) you are calling out so we know to steer clear of them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 10:32
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Optics GrassHopper
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Yeah I rambled on didn't I.
If someone will tell me how to edit this Ralph Nader Commentary, I will do so.  :):)
 
P.S. You got me to laugh on your Ralph Nader comment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 10:38
300S&W View Drop Down
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  First off WELCOME to OT!    Ralph?  LOL
 
  A member can't edit or post pics until they've made 50 posts.  Besides there's no big deal with your EXTENDED post anyways.   Ramble on!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 10:50
338WINMAG View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Okay thanks 300S&W. Your objective reply tells me there are still some good people out there. I almost bet you are in my age bracket\generation who grew up thinking about others as well.
 
I am just a big advocate for wanting "everyone to enjoy some fun and good life". Thats probably not a reasonable nor rational possibility though. After seeing the latest news article that the rich just got extremely much richer again this last year while I watch so many "little people" take salary reductions and layoffs, I just got frustrated.
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 11:00
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I almost agree with most of your comment... I due not have an uber expensive scope, mine is the original rear focus S.S. 10x42. But I have seen much better glass. It does boil down to what the market will bear. Leopold is the prime example of this. There Mark 4 line has become something of a joke, unless you are a fan! 
 The top end scopes offer something more than just a pretty picture to look at. The piece of mind that comes with scopes that begin with NightForce and end with Zeiss, is something else. While all things mechanical can fail, the robust design of these scopes makes it a lot more difficult to break them.
  One of these days... They will be worthy of MY money(just about the time I can convince my wife that I really need one). 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 11:06
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Welcome to Optics Talk. 

Theres a lot to digest in your thread and I'll consider commenting later. Interesting commentary though. 
One question I have is what brand of optics do you use now? You mentioned a 3-9x and a 6-20x earlier. 

Good shooting! Glad your here!  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 11:48
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Welcome to OT! I too am curious as to what optics you use now..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 12:19
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Welcome to the OT!

A new look on class warfare ... glass warfare.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 15:03
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:



A new look on class warfare ... glass warfare.

Clever man....Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2011 at 18:06
stickbow46 View Drop Down
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Welcome to the OT!
I thought everything is fair in love & war Get Your Popcorn Ready
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2011 at 08:38
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Hello 338WINMAG and welcome to the forum.

I'm just some guy that's been hangin' out in this forum and no kind of expert, but you said some things that I just can't let pass.

You talked about hype in forums... you can believe what you want, but you won't find misinformation about optics around here. People test and compare and will call a spade a spade.  Anyone who says differently either hasn't been paying attention, or is blinded to the truth of things by their own perceptions of the world.

Speaking of the world- the world is ruled by the kings and barons and princes and their minions. That's especially true of the corporate world. We don't call them kings, of course, but that's the way it is. You either take what they are giving, or you go out and start your own kingdom.

You don't believe in the law of supply and demand? The simplest example that I can think of, one that everyone has seen many times, is the phenomenon at Christmas time when this or that toy is the latest 'gotta have it'. The toy- makers can't keep up, all the stores are sold out and then the bidding wars start, as parents will pay almost any price to please their precious little ones.

That's the way it is. Want to change the world? Change your thinking.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2011 at 08:53
Kickboxer View Drop Down
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I will welcome you. 

 
This is the rifle scopes section.  You have a generalized lead in that may have something to do with scopes, but your misinformed and inaccurate tirade on economics belongs in the "almost anything goes" section.  I will move it there later today.
 
We all get sidetracked in the threads, sometimes, but this one never had a chance...
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2011 at 09:22
jonoMT View Drop Down
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338WINMAG,

Welcome to the OT. You make some good points but a few (as has been pointed out) that are incorrect. While no doubt that some people are influenced by forums to purchase overkill, there's not much of that going on here. Far more often, posters are urged to consider spending less and to be more realistic in setting their goals. I can't think of any vendors that have really been able to push an agenda in this forum.

As for hype in the industry: You bet! There's a lot of crap out there. Some of it ranges from the outright laughable (and almost criminal) CounterSniper junk to scopes that are from decent companies but ended up being designed by the marketing department, e.g. anything with mismatched reticle and turrets. There are some long-established players in the optics field that are content to rest on their laurels and others who are continually innovating, both in their product lines and in their customer service, as well as providing a lot of bang for the buck. Like anything else, you have to sort through the hype to find the true values. But the OT is one place where you can come and cut straight through.

Regarding high-end scopes: There is no reason for most of us to own one. However, there are some scopes in that range that are highly functional, durable and optically superb and there are people who need them (military, LEO). And there are some of us who have evolved in our shooting to the point where it's useful and fun to have something like that. For example, I chose to purchase a Premier Heritage 3-15X50, which is mostly a U.S.-made product, and that sits on a rifle that cost only half as much (well, at least before I started modding it). Do I need a Premier? No. But it is a fantastic scope to shoot with and I'd rather have it than a pile of other optics. I don't even use a spotting scope with it out to 300 yards.

So again, welcome, and don't hesitate to call out things you question. Just approach this forum with a willingness to learn and you will get a lot out of it.


Edited by jonoMT - April/04/2011 at 09:23
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