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RISING ABOVE THE ZEISS CONQUEST

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 19:19
dw0229 View Drop Down
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I AM WANTING TO UPGRADE RIFLESCOPES FOR DEER HUNTING.I TYPICALLY STICK TO 20-150 YARD SHOTS AND HUNT A VARIETY OF COVER BOTH IN ALABAMA AND ILLINOIS.FROM DENSE WOODS TO CORN FIELDS AND I HUNT TILL THE LAST DROP OF DAYLIGHT IS GONE.I HAVE A ZEISS CONQUEST 3-9X50 WITH A GERMAN 4 RETICLE.IT PERFORMS WELL BUT I WOULDN'T MIND UPGRADING BUT WITHOUT COMING TO A POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS.I AM BEGINNING TO WONDER IF THE CONQUEST JUST SIMPLY CANT BE BEAT WITHOUT SHELLING OUT ANOTHER $1000.I EVEN CALLLED ZEISS FOR THEIR INPUT AND THE GENTLEMEN TRIED TO CONVINCE ME TO STAY WITH THE CONQUEST SAYING THAT IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT THIS SCOPE EVEN IF YOU SPENT $500 MORE.I HAVE RESEARCHED MEOPTA (APPEARS TO BE ANOTHER CONQUEST),DOCTER,(THE SAME),SWAROVSKI PH,(MAYBE A SMALL STEP)SCHMIDT AND BENDER,(MY DEALER EVEN DROPPED THEM SAYING THEY HAVEN'T SHOWN HIM MUCH IMPROVEMENT IN THE PAST FEW YEARS;BY THE WAY MY DEALER RECCOMENDS THE Z6 AT $2500.A LITTLE MORE TAN I WANT TO GIVE.I WOULD LIKE TO BE AROUND $1500.YOUR INPUT PLEASE.THANKS.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 20:32
dw0229 View Drop Down
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I MAY HAVE FOUND AN OPTION;IF I CAN FIND ONE OF THESE.A KAKLES CL-3-10X50.FROM WHAT IT'S OWNERS SAY IT'S THE CAT'S MEOW AND NOT BAD PRICED IF YOU CAN FIND ONE.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 20:57
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dw0229,

I am not sure why you are shouting.

The law of diminishing returns really comes into play above the Conquest level.  Do you find your current riflescope lacking in some way?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 21:07
dw0229 View Drop Down
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I APOLOGIZE FOR THE LARGE PRINT,(I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN BY SHOUTING).I FIND MYSELF LIKE MANY OTHERS IN THAT IF I CAN BETTER MYSELF WITHOUT BREAKING THE BANK THEN FINE.HEY IF WE NEVER WANTED MORE I WOULD HAVE NEVER MOVED FROM MY TASCO OR STARTED RUNNING MICHELIN TIRES AND I SURE WOULD STOP DRIVING TO ILLINOIS FOR BIG WHITETAILS.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 21:19
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I was ribbing you for the all caps.  A lot of times, people use all caps when they want to be forceful in their blogging.

Improvements in glass above the Conquest are small, and cost a lot.  I really like the 3-9X50 with #4 for a low-light hunting scope.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 21:36
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The Zeiss Conquest is an EXCELLENT scope, sounds to me like that you are itching to spend some money how much do you want to spend? http://swfa.com/Trijicon-3-9x40-Accu-Point-Rifle-Scope-P507.aspx here is another good scope or maybe http://swfa.com/Burris-3-12x50-Black-Diamond-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P48173.aspx how about this http://swfa.com/Leupold-35-10x50-VX-3-Riflescope-P47334.aspx good luck....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 21:47
dw0229 View Drop Down
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I have a VX-3 and would rank it a little lower than the conquest.I dont mind spendind $1500 for say a zeiss diavari if there is a fairly dicernable difference in low light gathering;but if is minimal what's the point? I can lease some more ground with that $1000 difference and keep the conquest.You guys are the experts.Tell me your experiences..Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 23:43
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Couple of things you can do. I'm not sure who the guy was you were talking to. But Zeiss makes 2 3-12x56 models. One in the Conquest class and 1 in the Diavari class.
 
I saw a 3-12x56 conquest today at the sporting goods store it was 899 or 999. It will gather more light than your 3-9.
 
The other 3-12x56 is in the Diavari line, you are talking top of the line world class low light capabilities with that scope. Its 1899.
 
Its just my opinion but I think if you are hunting that late in low light you will get a few more minutes of time with the Conquest 3-12x56.
 
You would be able to sit out there until mid night with the Diavari 3-12.


Edited by Obi Wan Kenobi - August/25/2011 at 23:46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 23:55
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Originally posted by dw0229 dw0229 wrote:

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE LARGE PRINT,(I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN BY SHOUTING).



Shouting is when your using CAPS for every single word you type (and your large font).

Wait a few weeks and you'll see Kahles available again on the SWFA website.  Thunbs Up






Edited by mike650 - August/25/2011 at 23:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 05:38
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PM sent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 09:19
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Well, I'll give you my .02 and please take it FWIW.  First of all, your shooting takes place out to 150 yards.  I personally don't see the need for swapping out what you have and spending more money.  I personally do not care for anything over 42-44mm objectives.  I feel they're not necessary.  I do own a Leupold FX3 6x42 and it is wonderfully bright with great optics.  It is relatively new to me but I see why the followers of this scope recommend it so highly.  It is brighter than the 3.5-10x44 Conquest that I own @ 6x at dark-thirty.  There are very few, if any variable scopes by any maker tougher than this FX3, or fixed power scopes in general.  That being said, I'd disagree with whoever has negative things to say about S&B.  They have the finest glass in the world IMO, bar none.  There are a couple that are probably equal (Z6?, Diavari?) but none better, and definitely there is not a tougher variable scope in existence.  You'd have to decide if $1500 for a S&B Summit is worth it or not.  I'm also not a fan at all of 30mm tubes in a hunting scope.  I feel they are not necessary in the least.   150 yd and less shots shouldn't be a big problem with any high quality scope from the major manufacturers.  They will all get you past legal shooting light that I"ve seen.  What you have to be sure of, if you really want to be able to shoot until very last legal light, is being able to see your reticle.  The heavy duplex, #4 or 4A,  post and duplex, etc are best at this IMO.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 10:00
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For the distances you are talking about I like a fixed 6x42 .  
The Schott Glass is hard to beat.  I believe you would see an improvement in low light performance with this scope.  If you were talking longer distances in the 300 + yds I would want more magnification.  The conquest is about as good as it gets until you take the next level up and tripple the cost.  But for a hunting scope in this price range you wont be disappointed with the glass in this IOR its very nice in low light.
IOR 6x42 Hunting 30mm Rifle Scope 4A IOR 6x42 Hunting 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - 604241
  • Matte
  • 4A
  • 30mm
$594.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 10:12
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How bright the image appears depends on a number of factors.  Most important is size of the objective in comparison to the power of the scope.   6x42  or 42mm divided by 6power = 7mm exit eye pupil.  A 6 power scope with a larger objective like 50 or 56 is pointless if your eye pupil will only dialate to 7mm.  But at 7 power 7x7=49 so a 50 mm objective is useful at 7x and a 56 mm is useful at 8x.  If you had a 3-9x50 and you use it on lower powers than 7x it isnt doing you any more good than a scope with a 42mm objective.  The larger the objective the more difficult it is to get a good cheekweld and the larger the scope the more bulky it feels.

The quality of the glass  and lens coatings are very important but we all knew that.
 
The design of the optic how many lenses you are looking through is also a factor and I believe you will be looking through less sets of glass lenses with a fixed power scope which will help it to be brighter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 12:39
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IMO S&B is the finest glass in the world. THERE IS a noticable difference between a conquest and a summit which is really just a 1" zenith. I would go with a S&B and not look back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 15:52
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S&B... money well spent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 22:39
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Some great input here.I appeciate it very much.I like the idea of a simple fixed 6 power scope.Will the 6 be ok in the event i take a close (30yd.)shot?.Also I have considered the s&b
summit due to it not being so big.I just am out on a giant heavy scope.Right now it looks to be between a leupold or ior fixwed 6 power or a varible s&b summit or swarovski z5 3-18x44 or a kahles cl 3-10x50.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 23:06
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There is a little something troubling about S&B;although this may not apply to the summit,but in the finnish low light scope test (just do a search for finnish low light scope test) the first 2 scopes to fall out of the illuminated reticle test were the S&B zenith and the Meopta.Both were 56mm bells.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2011 at 10:21
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Might want to check out the new Hunter from Premier,it's the very same glass as that is used in the Heritage series.I find the Premier glass equal to my Zeiss FL.& thats about as good as it gets.Also the Premier is made in the USA,no going back to Germany for repair.Also comes with great CS & a life time warrenty.
 
Another +,they are sold by SWFA
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2011 at 10:51
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Originally posted by dw0229 dw0229 wrote:

There is a little something troubling about S&B;although this may not apply to the summit,but in the finnish low light scope test (just do a search for finnish low light scope test) the first 2 scopes to fall out of the illuminated reticle test were the S&B zenith and the Meopta.Both were 56mm bells.

The Summit is one of the brightest scopes out there, bar none.  As good, or some folks thing a tad better than the Diaviari's and the Z6. 

For your needs out to 150 yds I'd save the $$ and get the 6x42 FX3 with a heavy duplex, or a post and duplex reticle.  They are both great in low light, woody, or brushy situations, and the glass will get you past legal light.  I've been playing around with mine for a month or more now.  If you have a real close target, it's easy to get on it through the scope with both eyes open.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2011 at 16:42
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I am very strongly considering buying both the scmidt and bender summit and the leupold fx-3 as i shoot a thompson center pro hunter.In illinois i have the 20 ga. slug barrel and i can put the leupold on it.For Alabama I have a 30-06 barrel tha i can put the summit on.The summit's only competition to me would be a swarovski z5 3-18x44 or the diavari 2.5-10x42.iI do like the fact the diavari has a 1st focal plane reticle that you can get in a #4.if i go summit it will be a #9 reticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2011 at 17:17
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dw0229, you have hit on the quandry that faces all optics freaks. Diminishing returns. There is no escaping this I'm afraid. I would stick with the conquest unless there is something about it that you find is really wrong. That is no fun however, as upgrading IMO will always yield an improvement.
 
When comparing scopes do it in marginal conditions eg looking into darkend room corners or at dusk. All scopes look good outside at midday.
 
The Kahles line will give you the best improvement for the smallest outlay but always buy the best you can afford.
 
I also recommend the Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10x42 and have one with the #8 reticle. My son used this on dusk at 4x to shoot two bushpigs at 40 metres which were all but invisible to the naked eye. (We could not determine which direction they were facing or which was the largest). The 1st focal plane is a real bonus.
 
I have shot large game with a 6x42 at 40 metres and have not had a problem.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2011 at 13:38
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man ive killed numerous deer with a cheap nikon pro staff, out to 300 yds.i now favor a big sky sightron scope but they are prolly too cheap for you they run around 4-500 bucks glass is amazing

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2011 at 23:59
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Originally posted by dw0229 dw0229 wrote:

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE LARGE PRINT,(I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN BY SHOUTING).



Shouting is when your using CAPS for every single word you type (and your large font).

Wait a few weeks and you'll see Kahles available again on the SWFA website.  Thunbs Up




 
I would wait months for the Kahles to show up again.  I hope that they are going to have a budget model 1" tubed scope availble again?  I own a couple that I bought from you guys.
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