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Ring Marks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 17:12
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I will be spending some $$$ on a scope for my AR-15.  Is there any way to prevent ring marks on scopes?  On a 22 rimfire, I used the Burris Zee Rings with plastic inserts.  These things are great.  But, on a heavier recoiling, benchrest AR-15 (and possibly AR-10 later), these may not be suitable.  I did find one place that makes Delrin inserts for 30mm rings to hold a 1" scope.  But, what about protecting a 1" scope in 1" rings or 30mm scope in 30mm rings?

Thanks.

- Phil
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 17:29
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A couple of thoughts.
You can "lap" your new rings, which can help or eliminate ring marks, or you can buy rings with plastic inserts, like you mentioned in your post.
 
I've been using 1" TPS rings for a few years now. These rings have no inserts, but are machined so precisely, that they have left my scope tubes virtually mark free. I highly recommend them.      
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:00
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

A couple of thoughts.
You can "lap" your new rings, which can help or eliminate ring marks, or you can buy rings with plastic inserts, like you mentioned in your post.
 
I've been using 1" TPS rings for a few years now. These rings have no inserts, but are machined so precisely, that they have left my scope tubes virtually mark free. I highly recommend them.      
 
Herein lies the myth about ringmarks.  How precisely your rings are machined is only a small part of why we do or do not have ringmarks.  Your rings can be machined perfectly and be put on a receiver that's been tapped crooked and you'll have ringmarks with 2 piece bases.  IMO it's incorrect to see ringmarks and assume the rings were the problem.  There's 3 things that need to be perfect if you're not gonna lap or use Signature rings. 
 
1. Receiver would have to be tapped perfectly.
 
2. Bases would have to be drilled perfectly and machined true parallel to the top of the receiver.
 
3. Rings would have to be machined perfectly in bore and on the bottoms.
 
It's so easy to buy an alignment tool and lap if necessary.  Most people who have used alignment bars or lap rings understand how many variables can contribute to ringmarks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:06
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 High quality rings, carefully installed are your best defense against marring scope tubes, as Cheaptrick already noted. Don't over-torque ring screws, either. Get an inch-pound torque wrench if you aren't sure, and read the instructions that come with the rings on recommended torque values.
 Also,- no need to worry about Burris Signature (plastic insert-style) rings letting go or slipping. They grab hard, without marring tubes. I've used them without any problems on hard-kicking magnums.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:09
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 What Horsemany says is also true, but on an AR-style Flattop you really don't need to worry about those things, IMHO, especially with TPS or Badger rings or something of that quality level.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:12
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 High quality rings, carefully installed are your best defense against marring scope tubes, as Cheaptrick already noted. Don't over-torque ring screws, either. Get an inch-pound torque wrench if you aren't sure, and read the instructions that come with the rings on recommended torque values.
 Also,- no need to worry about Burris Signature (plastic insert-style) rings letting go or slipping. They grab hard, without marring tubes. I've used them without any problems on hard-kicking magnums.
 
Did you read the 3 things that need to be perfect?  I don't care how perfect your rings are it's wrong to assume that will keep your new scope safe from ring marks.  Anyone who cares enough to pose the question should use Burris Signature rings or buy a scope ring alignment tool/lapping bar IMO.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:16
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 Did you read the original post?
 You know, the part about the Benchrest AR15?
 Flattops are as well-machined as any lapping bars.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:16
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It's an AR flat top......... 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:21
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"Is there any way to prevent ring marks on scopes" + an example of what he did on his .22 led me to answer the question in a general sense rather than AR specific.  I'd agree with you RONK and cheaptrick that on a machined flat top it's flat enough to focus on good rings.  I'd still throw the alignment bars on the rings if I cared about the scope.  Nothing bad can happen from knowing how aligned your rings are before you sinch down a new scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:23
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Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

"Is there any way to prevent ring marks on scopes" + an example of what he did on his .22 led me to answer the question in a general sense rather than AR specific.  I'd agree with you RONK and cheaptrick that on a machined flat top it's flat enough to focus on good rings.  I'd still throw the alignment bars on the rings if I cared about the scope.  Nothing bad can happen from knowing how aligned your rings are before you sinch down a new scope.
 
Good copy...... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:25
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Hmm.Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:29
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Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

Hmm.Loco
 
"Good copy" means I understand and agree with you...
Are we through now?? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:33
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Oh I got it.  Yes I'm through with you.Howdy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:33
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Roger, Roger!
Do we have clearance, Clarence?
What's our vector, Victor?

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:39
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 

Roger, Roger!
Do we have clearance, Clarence?
What's our vector, Victor?

 

 
Ha Ha.  Mooove along.  Nothing to see here............Over and out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:43
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Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

Oh I got it.  Yes I'm through with you.Howdy
 
According to your "3 points to perfection" speach on an AR receiver, it sounds like you haven't "gotten it" yet, Partner. Roll on Floor Laughing
Keep trying though.......Howdy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:46
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Voodoo I was referring to any rings.  Not specifically flat top AR's.   I guess I read the OP's question differently than most.  Sorry to have wasted everybody's time. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:49
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Good points were made.
Hopefully the original poster can find this information useful and benefit from it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:51
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 What we had here was just a general all-around misunderstanding, and it was coupled with cosmic bad timing between certain posts.
 I actually think we all pretty much agree on general principles discussed here as applied appropriatly to various circumstances.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:54
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 What we had here was just a general all-around misunderstanding, and it was coupled with cosmic bad timing between certain posts.
 I actually think we all pretty much agree on general principles discussed here as applied appropriatly to various circumstances.
 
Roger, Roger.Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 19:00
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Yep, Thought So
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 19:30
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Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 

Roger, Roger!
Do we have clearance, Clarence?
What's our vector, Victor?

 

 
Ha Ha.  Mooove along.  Nothing to see here............Over and out.


Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 19:33
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Sorry I got here late.. anyway's for ring marks what is best coasters or napkins?  Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 19:48
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    There are only two ways to guarantee against ring marks/dented scope tubes:
 
   (1) Delrin bushings (Burris or the reducer bushings)
 
   (2) Lap the rings and then bed the scope tube to rings..top and bottom.
 
   Any other way has you at the mercy of tolerance stack up no matter how precisely the rings are made.
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