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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2010 at 19:17
7025jack View Drop Down
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I need to mount a set of Burris DD Signature rings. Is it necessary to use an alignment tool since it has the inserts or can I get it close and go?
 
If I need to buy an alignment tool, what is the best way to go?
 
If I am buying one, I would like to buy smart one time....opinions? Sinclair, brownells, kokopelli ???
 
thanks and Merry Christmas!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2010 at 07:18
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I'm unsure about the inserts, hopefully someone will be along shortly to answer that, however I have always aligned AND lapped my Leupold dual dovetail setups.
 
As far as alignment tools, I'm not sure if one is better than the other. Do your research first and let me know, but I do have a set for 1" rings that I'm selling. They're the same as new, Wheeler is the brand name, I'd like about $35 for them, this would include shipping. I could post/email pics if you're interested.
 
Best of luck and welcome aboard.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2010 at 07:31
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The way I see the Burris Signature Rings, lapping should not take place because of the way they are made to hold the insert rings.  That said, I think alignment rods should be used. I am looking into the ones with rings so that you have 30mm and 1" in the same tool. Makes the most sense, eh......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2010 at 18:29
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I just wanted to post my personal findings regarding this issue. John Were founder of kokopelliproducts.com has IMHO, the absolute best system for ring alignment bar none. His website explains the pitfalls of the pointed alignment rods that most are selling. Very informative site and just a kind man. VERY HELPFUL! For me personally, by researching my own question, I have answered it for myself and would direct others to take a look at his website and you will come to the same conclusion that I did!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2010 at 18:33
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Originally posted by 7025jack 7025jack wrote:

I just wanted to post my personal findings regarding this issue. John Were founder of kokopelliproducts.com has IMHO, the absolute best system for ring alignment bar none. His website explains the pitfalls of the pointed alignment rods that most are selling. Very informative site and just a kind man. VERY HELPFUL! For me personally, by researching my own question, I have answered it for myself and would direct others to take a look at his website and you will come to the same conclusion that I did!


+1Excellent.  I use his kits as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2010 at 18:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2010 at 18:46
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I made my own on a lathe when I was a T&D apprentice. I agree there are pitfalls with the pointed rods. They get you close, but not there.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2010 at 23:19
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My understanding is they are self-aligning.  A quick call to Burris C/S will get you the correct answer though and they (Burris) are very good folks to work with.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2010 at 05:59
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Well...................no.  They grip the scope with those inserts.  But, you could still have your rings not quite perpendicular to the receiver. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2010 at 11:03
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Originally posted by 7025jack 7025jack wrote:

I just wanted to post my personal findings regarding this issue. John Were founder of kokopelliproducts.com has IMHO, the absolute best system for ring alignment bar none. His website explains the pitfalls of the pointed alignment rods that most are selling. Very informative site and just a kind man. VERY HELPFUL! For me personally, by researching my own question, I have answered it for myself and would direct others to take a look at his website and you will come to the same conclusion that I did!
 
Thanks for the feedback. I've done some reading...interesting site.
 
With a little more research, I may switch myself!
 
 


Edited by Stud Duck - December/30/2010 at 11:06
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2011 at 20:18
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+4 on Kokopelli products.  I have the 1" and 30mm

He has also posted on this forum.

(if you have ever tried the wheeler bars.  you will really appreciate the kokopelli's)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 08:13
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Originally posted by jvr jvr wrote:

+4 on Kokopelli products.  I have the 1" and 30mm

He has also posted on this forum.

(if you have ever tried the wheeler bars.  you will really appreciate the kokopelli's)
 
I spoke with him on the phone, seemed like a top-notch guy, he didn't care to sit and talk. Needless to say I have a set on the way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 09:32
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I can understand alignment tools in certain circumstances, but don't well made picatinny rings and bases naturally line up perpendicular?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 09:39
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Originally posted by AustinN4 AustinN4 wrote:

I can understand alignment tools in certain circumstances, but don't well made picatinny rings and bases naturally line up perpendicular?
Yeah in this case though he is using dual dovetail or turn in rings. These are very easy to misalign. However I think they can be eyeballed easily considering the inserts, but it would not hurt. Rememeber though the inserts are 30mm I don't believe the rings are so this would propose an issue as you can't use the alignment tool with the inserts in cause they give some in every direction.

Edited by Chris Farris II - January/04/2011 at 10:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 09:58
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Both rings are 30mm. The top one has the insert and the bottom doesn't.
 
 


Edited by Chris Farris II - January/04/2011 at 09:59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 10:33
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Originally posted by AustinN4 AustinN4 wrote:

I can understand alignment tools in certain circumstances, but don't well made picatinny rings and bases naturally line up perpendicular?


Not necessarily.  A picatinny base does not for certain mean everything is okay.  If your receiver is out of square then when you tighten down the base it bends and no is no longer straight.

Mine rem 700 base bent when I tightened it down.  So I had to bed it with Devcon to make everything square.  My Win 70 and Browning were both perfect so no bedding needed.  But I would not have know these things without the Kokopelli kit. 

Here is a pic of a Savage rifle that the receiver is not straight.  He was using TPS products which are very good, but still did not matter because of the receiver.  My 700 was actually worse than this.  I have bedded a couple other 700 that will similar to this as well.



Edited by supertool73 - January/04/2011 at 10:36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 10:33
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Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

Yeah in this case though he is using dual dovetail or turn in rings. These are very easy to misalign.
Thanks, Chris. That is what I thought but I just wanted to be sure. I am new to scopes, rings and bases.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 10:37
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Like Supertool said although they normally do they can be off and there are other issues that could arrise also.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 11:12
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Originally posted by 7025jack 7025jack wrote:

I need to mount a set of Burris DD Signature rings. Is it necessary to use an alignment tool since it has the inserts or can I get it close and go?
 
If I need to buy an alignment tool, what is the best way to go?
 
If I am buying one, I would like to buy smart one time....opinions? Sinclair, brownells, kokopelli ???
 
thanks and Merry Christmas!
 
On the Sig rings and others with the inserts, no alignment tool is necessary since the o.d. of the plastic inserts are radiused to rotate in the concave radius on the i.d. of the rings to allow for self alignment.  Think of the inserts inside the rings as a ball and socket joint.  The i.d. of the inserts will therefore follow the scope tube.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 11:18
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Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

Both rings are 30mm. The top one has the insert and the bottom doesn't.
 
 
 
Without the scope in place, the inserts will always measure smaller than 30mm.  The inserts are split and are also flexible.  This ensures a tight fit with total contact on the scope tube.  Just like a ball joint, the radiused o.d. of the inserts negates the need for fine alignment of the steel rings because the concave i.d. of the rings will contact the radius on the plastic insert o.d. the same whether the rings are perfectly aligned or off a few degrees in any direction.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 11:30
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Yes Ted I understand but if you were going to use the rod to align these rings you would have to do it with the inserts out as they would just move I was referring to it the opposite way. Earlier in the thread a guy was saying he was going to use an alignment rod anyways and before he bought the tool I thought I would point out out that im not sure if the rings would be to big for them to bolt down onto the alignment tool as they are almost 3mm larger in diamater. Like I said earlier if I was using this setup I definately think eyeballing it would be fine because of the inserts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 12:56
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Gotcha.  The point being, you don't need to do any precise alignment with these rings in the first place.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 13:01
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Agreed and if you still plan on trying after our advice be aware of the rings being bigger.
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