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Reticle question

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 10:49
lifesadrag View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I have a pre 64 M70 in 30/06 with a Unertl Hawk 4X scope. I have the scope dialed in to my satisfaction. My question is....The reticle is canted slightly, What is the proper way to level it out? Will I have to resight it in if I turn it ever so slightly?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 10:58
rifle looney View Drop Down
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No you will not have to re sight put the gun in a vise, cradle,or clamp it down by some means level it , the top of the action is the best place for a level. They make various types to do this but you can use a carpenters level too.slightly loosen the screws and twist the scope till it looks good or it is level with the action tighten screws slightly and shoulder the gun to check if it is right for you .
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 10:59
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Any time you loosen a screw on a scope, mount, or ring; you will definitely want to verify zero.

If your reticle is canted in the slightest, then zeroing required some elevation and some windage adjustment. When you un-cant, you will have excess windage and/or elevation adjustment that will need to be taken out.  You will need to re-zero after removing cant.

Also, be sure the cant is due to the scope not being level rather than your hold not being level.  I naturally cant about 4 degrees clockwise.  If the reticle looks level to me in an off-hand position, it is because the reticle ain't level.  Just be aware that YOUR cant can contribute.

Any time you loosen a screw, verify zero.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 11:00
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Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

No you will not have to re sight put the gun in a vise, cradle,or clamp it down by some means level it , the top of the action is the best place for a level. They make various types to do this but you can use a carpenters level too.slightly loosen the screws and twist the scope till it looks good or it is level with the action tighten screws slightly and shoulder the gun to check if it is right for you .



I disagree, but that is nothing new around these parts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 11:03
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To add......... at less than 400 yrds I do not think it is a big deal unless you are shooting for scores. I have shot others guns that were not level and they all shot fine that is when the gun and shooter were as one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 11:09
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With that, I agree.  Even a sever cant can be adjusted out - so long as the range doesn't change or the shooter knows the proper dope for the specific range.

As I said, I have some experience with cant and, early on, it caused me some problems - so I err now by making sure there is no cant at all, it gives me one less thing to think about or screw up.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - May/30/2009 at 11:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 12:45
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Gravity effect on the bullet tends to be vertical, the cant error will increase and the distance of the shooting increases. If you are shooting more than a couple of hundred yards it is worth going to the trouble to level the reticle. That is a classic rig with that scope and rifle.
 
Duce Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 14:39
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I naturally cant as well also.. The last rifle I bought , the shop mounted a scope on it for me.. Everytime I looked through it, it did not look right to me.. Ive always thought it was the mounting, all scopes do this when I look thru them.. The last one I loosened the scews and tilted the scope just a little so it looked true to me..NOW Im finding its ME one more time, LOL! Ok I will start from scratch, also I will work on keeping the scope as level as possible when shooting.

Thanks for the info Guys! :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 14:55
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Optics GrassHopper
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It is a notable cant to me but it is very slight. I will be using this rig for deer hunting out to about 200yds. max., more realisticly 100yds or less, are you saying it's alright to leave it at this max range? The cant just plays on me it just doesn't seem right.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 14:59
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If it bothers you fix it, the more comfortable you are with a firearm the better you will shoot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2009 at 10:38
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At those ranges (out to 200 yards), you can probably get away with just doing what RL suggested in the first place and correct it to your satisfaction. But why not take a few shots anyway afterwards to get it dialed back in? There aren't that many of us who can't use the extra practice anyway. I'd suggest hanging a plumb line 50 yards away, set the rifle as level as possible, then while the scope is loose in the rings, line up the reticle with the plumb line. How meticulous you want to get with that is up to you (i.e. various leveling tools). Frankly, if you get it real close it won't matter out to 300 yards. You'll still be well within minute-of-deer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2009 at 18:01
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Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks for the advice. I definately will put some rounds through it to make sure!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2009 at 18:52
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Based upon the distances you say you will probably shoot, you can check to see if the scope is satisfactorily aligned to the trajectory of the bullet by shooting targets at 50, 100 and 200 yards.  Set up your targets using a plum line to align their vertical axis.  Make the vertical line on the target large enough to see it at the 200 yard distance.  When shooting, keep the vertical post of the scope aligned with the vertical line on the target.  I shoot three shots at each distance and locate the center of each group.

If you are zeroed at 100 yards, see how much the bullet-group center is to one side of of target vertical line at 50 yards, and how much at 200 yards.  If the scope is not aligned to the trajectory of the bullet, the bullets will hit on one side of the vertical target line at 50 yds and on the opposite side at 200 yds.  You can decide if the error is worth correcting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2009 at 23:03
Oldtrader3 View Drop Down
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I usually just employ a small spirit level ($5 at Loew's) on the horizontal scope mount surface and either on the bottom ring halves or on the scope's horizontal turret cap, if it is flat.  I just use a rifle cradle to level the rifle and it holds level (pretty well) with it's rubber pads.  For non-target, non long-range use this system works fairly well.
 
Turning the scope within the lossened top ring halves to vertical will not usually even move the zero too much but I colimate the scope anyhow.  As long as the cheap spirit level repeats on both the bases and rings, it will be pretty level/vertical.


Edited by Oldtrader3 - June/03/2009 at 23:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2009 at 23:41
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The best way I have found to take the cant out of the rifle is with the EXD device

 
which will allow you to set your rifle up in a vise and align the axis of the scope and the bore of the rifle and level them
 
 
I do this while the rifle is aimed out the door to a 4' level on a fence about 30 yards out so that I can then rotate the scope in the rings so the reticle is level. 
 
But even though you have then leveled the reticle when the rifle is uncanted you still have to hold that rifle uncanted when shooting.  The best anti-cant device I have found is the ScopLevel
 
 
which you can keep folded down when not in use
 
and fold up when shooting so you can see it without lifting your head off the stock
 
So:
1.  Uncant the rifle and align the scope with the EXD
2.  Level the reticle with a horizontal or vertical object at distance
3.  Attach and level the anti-cant device
4.  Lock it all down with everything level (not easy to do)
 
Then you have done all you can to take care of cant.  I used to shoulder the rifle and rotate the scope repeatedly to try and get it right but often wound up at the range thinking "that's a little off".  Doing it the way I described above I have never felt that way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2009 at 12:14
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Optics GrassHopper
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I just purchased a 1950 Model 70 with a J. Unertl 4x Hawk which is low about 6 inches at 100 yds.  At 300 I have to aim about 12 inches above a circular 18 inch target to hit low center.
 
I was told by the gentleman who spotted the targets for me with an excellent zoom scope at 22X 60mm, that I would have to turn the top screw "one click" counterclockwise to begin the vertical adjustment upward.
 
After trying to log-in on this page yesterday, unsuccessfully, I went to the range at sunrise today and boresighted at 100 yards.  The sight is low when the bore is centered.
 
I removed the top, sight thumbscrew when I returned from the range and turned the set screw one-quarter turn counterclockwise.
 
I'll return to the range next week with a sighting scope to see if there was a positive change.
 
Also Weaver mounts are in place.  Seem tight and well aligned.
 
Alfter you stop laughing, please advise.  I turned the screw one-quarter turn because that's how I adjust my carb on the 1966 390FE...that makes sense, right?
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