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Reticle advice : Leupold B&C or Zeiss Rapid Z-600

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2009 at 20:37
akula88 View Drop Down
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My friends and I went to an informal fun shoot along a riverbank.  We set some metal plates (4"x4" and 6"x6") as targets and placed then on distances of 200m (220y),  280m and 300m.  We set up ourselves behind a dead tree roots.  No benchrest.  This is almost our first formal 'known distance' mid-range shooting.  Most of the time, we are on 50-100yards.

We were bringing a couple of 16" ARs with mil surplus ammo (that respectable groups at 50yards).  We weren't able to bring our handloaded 60g hornady.  ARs have stock trigger groups and only polished.  No match trigger.  No bipod.  Scopes used were a Millet 1-4 and Weaver CE 1.5-4.5 (later interchanged with a Zeiss 3-9x)

We sucked big time, averaging only 3 to 4 out of 10 on the 200m when 4x4 were used, though hitting average went up when we placed the 6" plates instead.

Out further it was like 1 out of 10 on the 300m.  We had difficulty getting the right hold over and drops.  Wind was almost a non-factor, although there was an ocassional gust along the river bank.

Another friend of ours brought his CZ-550 (.308) scoped with Leu VX-7L with B&C reticle.  After a few rounds, he was able to locate his drop and was getting more consistent hits.

For your comments :

1 - Bullet drop reticle seemed to matter in this case.  We are groping to locate where to compensate from our flex (zeiss and weaver) and circle and dot (millet) reticles.

2 - Stock trigger seemed harder to control and form nice less than 2MOA groups ( 6" at 300m )

3 - I'm now contemplating of getting a either a Zeiss with Rapid-Z reticle or Leu VX3 with Boone & Crockett reticle.  Which one do you prefer?  I'm more incled with Rapid-Z as it has rudimentary ranging capability.

TIA for your comments.

I need to make a BIG buck decision :(



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2009 at 22:38
tjtjwdad View Drop Down
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Try them out in low light situations and see which one you can see the best.  Both scopes are very capable.

Jim
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 09:05
Black Squirrel View Drop Down
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I have a rapid-z 600. It works. The ranging feature is anything but rudimentary. It's very good. Better than the mildot system.

It uses IPHY (inch per hundred yards), which means the only math you have to do is 1 step and that's a division using units that are most common to most people in the US (inches/inches). Much simpler. Lines are spaced 2" apart, and has 1/2" marks at the ends. The top of the vertical crosshair is 18" at 100 yards for quick ranging on game. Has windage in 2.5, 5 and 10mph wind.

The Rapid Z is probably the best holdover reticle you can get.

Optics are fantastic. Zeiss has a calculator so you can precisely tune the rapid z to your specific load. Leupold groups various calibers/loads based on generic trajectory.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 09:12
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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not sure about the question?? are you asking what would be a better set for an ar shorty?? what range of power do you want in the variable?? reticle type alone usually doens't solve problems.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 16:29
danjojoUSMC View Drop Down
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Do you have any BUIS on the rifles?   If you do I think you should practice hitting with those first....200 and 300 meters is not very far or hard to hit with iron sights. 

Do you guys have any formal training in how to shoot rifles?  I'm not being mean but it makes a difference when you are shooting past 50-100 yards or shooting off a bench.  Lack of basics like correct use of bone structure, breathing, focus on the sight instead of the target, etc. will mess you once you go 300 meters or further.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 17:54
akula88 View Drop Down
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Thanks all for the replies and advices.

danjojo>  We were basically pistol shooters. We've only started shooting AR rifles (actually carbine length) just this year, but round count is low.  Fundamental knowledge is there.   We have respectable aim-shots when doing targets at our local square range which is only up to 80 yards deep.  That also includes iron sights.   However, I am personally wearing glasses and can't see clearly when doing those beyond 150y.  It's just that we are used to shooting in ideal situation (yet) and not field or hunting-type conditions. 

Dale > Our regional 3-gun type of shooting has ocassional targets that are 300meters away and on the next hill.  This is what we are trying to practice for.  10x (max) is the magnification that I'm going for.   I do plan to get a range finder in the future, but that has a lower priority for my limited budget.  Right now, we just accept what the Range Officer would tell us about target distance on his stage.  

Further yet, we have not started studing wind effects.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 17:56
akula88 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Black Squirrel Black Squirrel wrote:


The Rapid Z is probably the best holdover reticle you can get.

Optics are fantastic. Zeiss has a calculator so you can precisely tune the rapid z to your specific load. Leupold groups various calibers/loads based on generic trajectory.


BlackSquirrel> You have essentially nailed my choice. Big Smile...    What are the differences with Z-800 over the Z-600 other than the additional drop lines at 700 and 800 yards?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 18:45
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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varmit Z has thinner hash marks, 600, 800 are more for hunting using a thicker reticle for lower light conditions 800 has additional marks but is busier, 1000 uses top part of reticle.
ranging is done with 2 moa increments at the top of the scope reticle, and no it doesn't have to be on highest power to work.
other alternatives, which is the one I use given the course of fire you have described. leo mk4, with drop turret, special purpose reticle with 2.5,5, moa hold over in reticle which is usually enough.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2009 at 23:07
sscoyote View Drop Down
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I'd love to have one of those Rapid Z's. The rangefinding feature itself is better than any other optic i've seen. Should provide interpolation accuracy (guessing between lines) to a level of about 1 tenth of 1/2" per hundred yds. with practice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2009 at 01:19
JF4545 View Drop Down
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Hi,
 
Just so you know and Im not saying Leo is any better than Zeiss. But what most people do not seem to know is this - Leupold will make you a Custom Built reticle for your rifle. Im not talking about a Boone and Crockett.
This is the Custom Ballistically Matched Reticle, its Custom Made for your Rifle and Round. You just give the them the Altitude, Temp, BC, Caliber, Muzzle Velocity, Etc. Etc. and the reticle has aRange Estimating and goes from 200,300,400, and 500 yards. Go to Leupold.com or call there Tech Dept and they will explain it to ya. Its a good deal because its built specifically for your caliber and Round.. If I were gonna buy a one I would probably go with this one.. That does not mean the Zeiss is not good as well..
JF
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