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I am looking at possibly purchasing a new Remington Sendero SF II rifle in either 7MM RUM or 300 RUM caliber, to use for long range whitetail hunting (400-500 yard shots).
 
Anyone here have any experience, advice, or recommendations on this particular rifle? What about the two calibers I am looking at?
 
I am kind of leaning towards the 300 RUM caliber simply because of more ammo choices and availability.
 
Would like some input before I purchase this gun.
 
Thanks in advance for your replies.
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Originally posted by Cuz-Pat Cuz-Pat wrote:

I am looking at possibly purchasing a new Remington Sendero SF II rifle in either 7MM RUM or 300 RUM caliber, to use for long range whitetail hunting (400-500 yard shots).
 
Anyone here have any experience, advice, or recommendations on this particular rifle? What about the two calibers I am looking at?
 
I am kind of leaning towards the 300 RUM caliber simply because of more ammo choices and availability.
 
Would like some input before I purchase this gun.
 
Thanks in advance for your replies.
................The Sendero IMO, is one of the best looking in the 700 line! My only objection, is its weight at about 8.5 lbs. By the time you scope it with at least a 3x9 plus the rings and bases, you`re going to be between 9.5 to 10 lbs!.....In my earlier years years and up until last year, I had a 300 Win. Vanguard, which weighed in at 9 lbs. 10 oz. Depending on your terrain, if ever mountainous or hilly, that kind of rifle weight will get old real fast............Your two choices in calibers are fine, with certainly more power than needed for whitetails, even with shots at the 400 to 500 yard range. If you are going to hunt larger game, then these two calibers will be more in their element........But consider though, that the 7 RUM, even though a spectacular flat shooter, is not exactly what I would call, real kind on barrel life! The 300 RUM, if you have no apprehension with recoil, is ok too. You have more bullet versatility on the heavier side with the .30, while you have better versatility for lighter bullets with the 7`s.................With all of that stated, I`ll state this! If any hunter or even me does his job correctly, regardless of the cartridge power, you STILL must properly place the shot.............. I`ll take a shorter action in a lighter rifle, chambered in a 270 WSM, 7mmWSM,  or 300 WSM and accomplish the same thing at 400 to 500 yards, just like your two above choices will, chambered in the heavier Remy Sendero!................As a matter of fact, my little 7.5 lb. compact 300 WSM with only a 16.5" tube, will also do the same thing at 400 to 500 yards on whitetail, as it well exceeds the ballistics of a 24" barreled 30-06!............The Sendero while very good looking, is a heavier and more cumbersome rifle!!  Weight%20Lifter  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2008 at 01:25
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Hello, Cuz-Pat
 
I have spent this past year putting together a Remington Sendero SF II, cambered in the .300 RUM  and although it is a very heavy setup, I wouldn't have changed a thing. My rifle is topped with the IOR 2.5-10x Illuminated mp-8 reticle in the FFP tactical scope with TPS 20 moa base and rings. The rifle  has an overall barrel lenght of 28 inches (with the muzzle break included). I use BOTH earplugs and ear muffs while shooting, and setting up away from people (forrest service lands) doesn't hurt a thing... Including my shoulder! There is hardly any recoil with the break installed and the heaviness  of the rilfe, really a fun cannon to shoot. I had the trigger adjusted to 3 1/2 pounds, and added a custom leather check riser for more comfort.
 
So why did I choose this heavy setup for hunting? I've always wanted a long range rifle that had enough energy to adaquately knock down big game with accuracy. I'm sure alot of formum readers have watched hunting programs featuring the best of the west and their long range setup using their huskamaw optics, but I thought there was a better scope out there to do the same thing. This rifle, often refered to as a beanfield rifle, is meant to be used in places like Canada, desert country (coues deer anyone?) and anywhere your hunting methods require more spot and stalk tactics than walking through the countryside with no real purpose. I did find a fantastic pack (Elberlestock J 107) in which the rifle neatly slides into a scabbord for hands free movement and quickly comes out when needed. I believe the advantage of this weapon for which I intend to use it, is worth the extra weight that it comes with ...
 
So the bottom line is I've got a cartridge that shoots 3350 fps shooting a 180 grain Barnes XBT that give me about 2241 ft. lbs of energy at 500 yards. At 700 yards, it still retains over 1600 ft. lbs... enough  energy to be effective on even elk. I'm still working up loads, wanting to try the Nosler accubond and Berger but  my load so far has been the Barnes 180 XBT using 89 grains of RL25. I'm shooting under moa groups but believe the rifle will get better. Some people scoff about factory rifles and their accuracy but this Sendero, although extremely heavy, meets my requirements. While shot placement is everything, there is really no guarantee that your bullet will always fly true... at any range. I truely believe that having that extra energy is an advantage to humanly harvest.
 
I guided many hunters in my mis spent youth and have never really been  fond of the 7mm magnums. I seen a really good hound get shot and killed because a  bullet passed completly through a bayed up bear and into the dog. I would take a .280 over a 7mm magnum anyday, and you are also limited in bullet weight. If you were shooting targets every week, I could see shooting the barrel out of these ultra's sooner than other calibers but really, after you've learned to properly shoot these guns, you don't have to run box after box through it every time you take it out?
 
Hope this has helped, heavy setup that packs a heavy punch.... This rifle is really fun and if you scope it right to begin with, the sky's the limit with potential:) Bandito
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oh, and if barrel life is really a concern, you can always load a squib load to shoot for practice. Remington has the 3 power levels out from .06 to ultra mag, same thing:)
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Cuz- Pat..................If you don`t mind the extra rifle weight and the extra over all length, then a set up like "Countryscape`s" is a great one!..........Like anything else, there are trade-offs and compromises; gain here, lose something over there or, lose here and gain something over there.................For relatively flat, wide open plains hunting work alone, assuming that is all you are going to do, the Sendero is excellent. However, regardless of your physical stature or strength, get into the steep hills and mountainous regions or thicker brushy areas where you will be hiking? Well! Be my guest and carry around a 9.5 to 10 lb. or more rig, with an OAL of 46.5" or more with a 28" tube!.....................While a set up like that gives you a velocity gain, a 180 gr. @ 3350 fps., does that mean that a 180 grainer from a 300 WSM or a 300 Win. Mag. travelling @ 2950 to 3050 fps. cannot effectively, accurately or humanly kill game at the same ranges? That`s for another debate!............. Ballistically, at the 700 yard mark, the 300 RUM from a 28" tube would have an advantage say on elk. But! 80% of dead is still the same as 100% of dead! The results are the same; dead = dead!! If more shots on elk averaged 700 yards to begin with, then perhaps a case can be made. But realistically, on any guided or non guided elk hunt, the AVERAGE shooting distances will be less than 400 yards the majority of the time..........So the question really should be; "should you get a heavier, longer, but more powerful rifle, just in case a 700 yard shot should ever present itself or is ever needed?" Remember though, that while your waiting for that opportunity for a 700 yard shot which MAY not ever occur, that added extra physical burden on you in the meantime, even though a small difference in rifle weight, say only 2 to 2.5 lbs., will take its toll, especially on all day rigorous hunts in steeper terrain! Nevermind that?..................I`d rather be far more comfortable during my hunts and get another 100 to 200 yards closer with a lighter, shorter and less powerful set-up! If you spot elk at 700 yards away, chances are, you will always be able to move in closer the vast majority of the time as the terrain and cover will allow you to do so!.........Yes! There are trade-offs and compromises. I for one, play the much higher percentages of realistic hunting scenarios and conditions. Based on 35+ years of hunting experience, if I were you, I`d get a rifle that would best suit or balance to ALL possible scenarios ie; terrain, average shooting distances, carrying comfort etc. as best as possible!................Sure! Muzzle brakes will substantially reduce recoil! But there will be compromises in greatly increased noise and in some cases, muzzle flash. Remember! When you gain something, you always will compromise and lose something somewhere else.......... Because a 180 gr. bullet can be propelled at 3350 fps. from the muzzle, that advantage alone IMO, does not offer or give the better overall balance in other areas that should be considered as well.....................Good luck!         
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Well heck, then why get a magnum at all.  400 to 500 yards with a .308 and a well placed shot would take down a whitetail no problem, heck even an Elk.  Lower recoil, longer barrel life, easier to shoot.

But back to the Sendero RUM.  I would get the .300 based on options for loads and more downrange energy and the barrel will probably last a bit longer.  Either one optimal accuracy out of one of those barrels is probably going to be max 1500 to 2000 rounds.  But if it is purely a hunting rifle that could last you for a long time. 

I really like the 7mm caliber though.  I have a 7mm Mag and it really will tear up an elk, it always amazes me how much damage it does.
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Thanks for all the replies and info. This rifle will be used exclusively as a hunting rifle for whitetail deer. I have never been elk hunting and may never will.
I am not a target shooter either.
 
I am looking for a rifle to hunt with on the gas lines at our club where we have opportunties to take 400-500 yard shots on a regular basis. A couple of our stands you can stretch out to 600 yards but that is the maximum yardage this gun would ever be used for. I have a lighter rifle in 270 win. for using in brush and woods type situations.
 
I realize this rifle will be heavier to carry but it will only be used in this one application, hunting the gas lines from elevated shooting houses.
 
I have been looking at the Sendero with a 26" barrell WITHOUt the muzzle break.
 
Should I consider another rifle or another caliber for this particular set-up?
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Like Squeezer said it all comes down to the tradeoffs you are willing to live with.  An ultra mag is a beast of a gun way more than is needed for what you are wanting to do.  But one thing about it you know it is going to do the job. 

If you are in a shoot house then obviously carrying weight won't be an issue but that added weight is certainly going to make it nicer to shoot as it will tame the recoil a bit.  In your case I would probably add weight to the stock as well.  Turn it into a 13 to 14 lb rifle and it would be even better to shoot.

Just the regular old 7 Mag would have plenty of juice to do what you want, have slightly less recoil, the barrel would last a bit longer, and more options for factory ammo is available. 
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I had a S/F Sendero I?? Bucky in .300 RUM.
 
SWEET shooter, but I liked mine MUCH better after I had a muzzle brake installed. 
RL25 is a good powder to use if your shooting 180gr. bullets.
 
No offense intended, but shooting big game at the ranges you mentioned (400-600 yards) troubles me.
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Originally posted by Cuz-Pat Cuz-Pat wrote:

Thanks for all the replies and info. This rifle will be used exclusively as a hunting rifle for whitetail deer. I have never been elk hunting and may never will.
I am not a target shooter either.
 
I am looking for a rifle to hunt with on the gas lines at our club where we have opportunties to take 400-500 yard shots on a regular basis. A couple of our stands you can stretch out to 600 yards but that is the maximum yardage this gun would ever be used for. I have a lighter rifle in 270 win. for using in brush and woods type situations.
 
I realize this rifle will be heavier to carry but it will only be used in this one application, hunting the gas lines from elevated shooting houses.
 
I have been looking at the Sendero with a 26" barrell WITHOUt the muzzle break.
 
Should I consider another rifle or another caliber for this particular set-up?
......................For exclusive use for whitetails, shooting from elevated houses or stands with no hiking in steep terrain, the Sendero would be fine even though, at 400 to 600 yards, the 300 RUM is certainly overpowered for just whitetail use......Since you already have a lighter .270 Win to use in the other conditions of which I previously mentioned, then you`ll be covered fine for those hunts!...........Remember too that your factory ammo expense and the expense in powder will be greater with the 300 RUM. If that is no consideration then fine, go for the 300 RUM......... Even though it has certain limitations, for the reasons I previously gave, the Sendero is a very good looking and very accurate rig!!......Hunting from stands is one thing. Hiking over mountainous, hilly terrain or hunting in heavy cover or brush is quite another and not what I consider to be ideal territory to be packing a 9.5 to 10 lb. or more Sendero!!.............Sure! There are other rifles you could consider for this use and keep your weight down.......... How about a Kimber composite or synthetic in 270 WSM or 300 WSM! A Browning A-bolt in the same calibers! A Tikka T3 in again the same calibers!............If you need a 300 RUM to successfully hunt whitetails at those distances, then that is ok, but again it is overpowered and not needed. Yeah I know, it gives added insurance or assurance for the high velocity freakazoids.......... The fact is, that with either the 270 WSM, 7mm or the 300 WSM`s, using the right bullet, you`ll have enough down range energy for whitetail. For better downrange energy at those distances however, my preference of the three would be the 300 WSM using a 180 or 200 grainer.........I can take my little 300 WSM compact with only a 16.5" tube and feel right at home with you in those stands hunting white tail at ranges of 400 to 600 yards!!................ Given the same zero and enough downrange killing energy for both elk and whitetail, the only realistic difference between a 26" 300 RUM 180 grainer @ 3250 to 3300 fps. vs a 16.5" er,  a 23"er or a 24"er 300 WSM 180 grainer @ 2950 to 3100 fps. in a shorter/lighter rifle IS??? Drum roll please!,,,,,,,,,,,,,AIM JUST A WEEEE BIT HIGHER!!!..That`s it!! What a challenge!!......That elk or whitetail will be just as dead and won`t get up to request a heavier hitting caliber!!.....Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing................. 
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Howdy, Gentlemen!
 
 Guess I should clear the air and clarify that It's not my intention to suggest that  my Sendero and  the way I have it set up is an all around go get um' slinging wonder rifle. I do however, believe in having only a few rifles that shoot very well and are  different enough to warrant having. One of my favorite little rifles is a browning micro medallion A-bolt, chambered in the .243 with a leupy 2.5-8 V-III. It sports a twenty inch barrel and is extremely quick, especially when hunting our coastal  blacktails . I also don't question any of your hunting abilities nor should you question mine! Hunting is something I'm very good at and out on the west coast anyways, I've pretty much seen it and done it all.
 
I have no doubt that the short magnum actions built on a light weight mountain rifle could very well be the best all around weapon for North American hunting and my next project may be on those lines...  Not trying to debate that.  But Cuz- Pat was asking about my Sendero in the .300 RUM cartridge and hopefully I discribed it honestly and accurate.  I just don't think the short mags can hold the energy that I'm looking for down range and really, that's the whole concept of a beltless magnum... trying to get the most speed from a heavier bullet to generate more energy.... Look at the downrange energy from your short mags, they don't compare.
 
As for long range shooting for big game, that again is a  personal decesion  based on an individual's experience, skill and yes... equipment. When you start trying to guess holdover by holding just a little high and throwing away science and technology, it's going to come back and bite you if you do it often enough. Wind drift is the biggest concern in this type of shooting and even with a wind meter, the shooter  must be willing to show restraint if uncertain and can't read the wind. If shooting longer distances bothers you, then don't do it... no offense intended!
 
I have a very high chance in this years Oregon draw for a coveted trophy elk hunt (20 tags 3,000 applicants) in the Wenaha unit of North East Oregon. I very well might have regrets with this rifles weight before the hunt has ended but it will be my choice of rifle and I will pack it without complaint. The side canyons are extremely steep and these huge,world class bulls will be feeding out of the timbered pockets into  open areas of the upper ridges. If you've ever seen that country and know what I'm talking about, getting on the same ridge as the elk and closing the gap is impossible... I know! For me, the .300 RUM will pay for itself on this hunt alone, not to mention all the fun in between learning to shoot it.
 
Big sqeeze is most likely right that any of the ultra mags would most likely be more than needed in Cuz's situation... Although I'm taking my ultra next time I hunt whitetails in Alberta. Regardless, my rifle has really been put together for elk but with the different bullets available in the .308's, it would make a dandy coues rifle (when I go to mexico) or even pronghorn when your trying to kill a world class buck in New mexico and only have 3 days to do it?
 
Anyway, I'm really excited about this rifle and for me, it's worth owning:)
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Originally posted by Countryscape Countryscape wrote:

I guided many hunters in my mis spent youth and have never really been  fond of the 7mm magnums. I seen a really good hound get shot and killed because a  bullet passed completly through a bayed up bear and into the dog. I would take a .280 over a 7mm magnum anyday, and you are also limited in bullet weight.
 
Please elaborate on this statement if you don't mind.  There isn't much difference between a .280 and 7mag performance-wise, and .280 IS a 7mm.  I don't understand the bullet weight limitation comment.  Besides .30 caliber, there's no other caliber offering as broad a range of bullet weights as 7mm.  A 160 grain 7mm bullet has about the same SD as a 190 grain .30 caliber bullet with higher BC.
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Originally posted by Countryscape Countryscape wrote:

Howdy, Gentlemen!
 
 Guess I should clear the air and clarify that It's not my intention to suggest that  my Sendero and  the way I have it set up is an all around go get um' slinging wonder rifle. I do however, believe in having only a few rifles that shoot very well and are  different enough to warrant having. One of my favorite little rifles is a browning micro medallion A-bolt, chambered in the .243 with a leupy 2.5-8 V-III. It sports a twenty inch barrel and is extremely quick, especially when hunting our coastal  blacktails . I also don't question any of your hunting abilities nor should you question mine! Hunting is something I'm very good at and out on the west coast anyways, I've pretty much seen it and done it all.
 
I have no doubt that the short magnum actions built on a light weight mountain rifle could very well be the best all around weapon for North American hunting and my next project may be on those lines...  Not trying to debate that.  But Cuz- Pat was asking about my Sendero in the .300 RUM cartridge and hopefully I discribed it honestly and accurate.  I just don't think the short mags can hold the energy that I'm looking for down range and really, that's the whole concept of a beltless magnum... trying to get the most speed from a heavier bullet to generate more energy.... Look at the downrange energy from your short mags, they don't compare.
 
As for long range shooting for big game, that again is a  personal decesion  based on an individual's experience, skill and yes... equipment. When you start trying to guess holdover by holding just a little high and throwing away science and technology, it's going to come back and bite you if you do it often enough. Wind drift is the biggest concern in this type of shooting and even with a wind meter, the shooter  must be willing to show restraint if uncertain and can't read the wind. If shooting longer distances bothers you, then don't do it... no offense intended!
 
I have a very high chance in this years Oregon draw for a coveted trophy elk hunt (20 tags 3,000 applicants) in the Wenaha unit of North East Oregon. I very well might have regrets with this rifles weight before the hunt has ended but it will be my choice of rifle and I will pack it without complaint. The side canyons are extremely steep and these huge,world class bulls will be feeding out of the timbered pockets into  open areas of the upper ridges. If you've ever seen that country and know what I'm talking about, getting on the same ridge as the elk and closing the gap is impossible... I know! For me, the .300 RUM will pay for itself on this hunt alone, not to mention all the fun in between learning to shoot it.
 
Big sqeeze is most likely right that any of the ultra mags would most likely be more than needed in Cuz's situation... Although I'm taking my ultra next time I hunt whitetails in Alberta. Regardless, my rifle has really been put together for elk but with the different bullets available in the .308's, it would make a dandy coues rifle (when I go to mexico) or even pronghorn when your trying to kill a world class buck in New mexico and only have 3 days to do it?
 
Anyway, I'm really excited about this rifle and for me, it's worth owning:)
.......................................There was no need for you to clear the air in any way, as you in no way suggested that your Sendero was as you say, "a go get um slinging wonder rifle!"................Also! No one questioned any of your hunting skills or abilities and there was no reversal of that either...........The original poster Cuz-Pat, not only asked for opinions about the Sendero, but he also asked for possible alternatives to the Sendero and possible cartridge alternatives as well, that might also meet his needs.............The short mags were not designed to compete and compare with the RUM`s, either in the velocity dept. or in the downrange energy dept. However, they were designed to be chambered in lighter, faster, in some cases shorter, handier and more manuverable rifles, while still giving the performances needed similiar to their larger and longer bretheren. One not only buys the cartridge, but a great deal of consideration should be given to the rifle too!.................Unless one is zeroed in at 400 to 600 yards, there will be holdover. No need to throw away any science and technology. Instead, use it to one`s advantage by knowing the bullets BC, properly chronographing and knowing the bullets average velocity at various temps which allows for the determination in calculating trajectories and holdover distance. I don`t consider having hold over, throwing away any science and or technology..............As I have stated, the Sendero is a real nice piece and after learning of Cuz-Pat`s usage, even stated that it would be a fine choice for that purpose even though a 300 RUM is over-powered for whitetails!...............There are hunters who like that extra assurance in added velocity, which then translates into more downrange energy. But in that process one wants to enjoy the hunt and not be burdened down with extra rifle weight...............While I can`t compete ballistically with a 26" 300 RUM, with a 200 gr. Nosler A/B, I can however generate 2828 fps. in MV from my 300 WSM compact. Maybe more with further powder experimentation. That turns into a downrange energy of (1951 ft lbs.), nearly a ton @ 500 yards, which is more than sufficient for any size of elk, whitetail, moose or just about anything else on this continent!............The difference is that I do so with a rifle that is lighter and shorter. I also do compromise velocity and downrange energy with a 16.5" tube, but not seriously enough to diminish the needed killing power at normal and beyond the normal hunting ranges..............Good luck with your Oregon draw!  Wink
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Hello, Rifle dude!
 
Yes, sometime I get to writing and with so many thoughts running through my mind, don't thoroughly explain... 
 
 I've been lucky enough to have done a fair amount of guiding, most of it from the early eighties through 2000. I still slip down to California every year and help with some big groups of bear hunters.  Have taken on big horn sheep hunters (talk about stress but always successful ), bear, bobcat and cougar hunters as well as few blacktail and roosevelt elk hunters. To give you an idea of my time in the mountains, I caught over 300 cougar in my career.I worked for several timber companies and took about 20 bears a year on damage permits (bears peeling cambium layers in the spring when the sap begins flowing) and caught bobcats for ODF&W in their cat studies. Because of my reputation with the hounds, was able to take advantage of moose and whitetail hunts in Canada (trade hunts). So my point to all of this is I've killed and seen my share of animals taken about any way you can imagine. Like many people who have had a  bad experience with something, its easy to draw a negative attitude and the 7mm is on that list for me. I still believe to this day that any .30 calber wouldn't have went through the bear and killed one of the best bear hounds that ever walked (and the hound wasn't mine). Also, I've seen multiple times where hunters shot and killed both elk and deer with a 7mm but almost every time, the animal would walk off like it wasn't even hit and we would find it laying dead some distance away. Elk seemed to be really bad about this. Doesn't seem to matter what .30 cal you use, 30.06 or a 300 magnum, the animal usually crumbles where he stands. Now I don't know what type of bullets these folks were shooting for sure, I just know how the game reacted! The .280 is a really nice cartridge, I think because the speed is not as fast and the bullet gives more shock inside the cavity without going completly through (like the magnums can sometimes do). Just what I've noticed in many years of hunting. I think if your going to use a 7mm, bullet choice is extremely important looking back at it, probably the reason my opinion isn't favorable. Hope this clears up what i was saying?
 
Big Squeeze, nice to meet you. Rifle dude and I have already met and he has helped me quite a bit with  optics this past year. After reading your last post, seems we really do agree on the concept between the magnums and what they are met to do. I couldn't agree more with your post, big sqeeze! Again, I have built this rifle for a certain hunt (I already know about how far I'll have to shoot because these bulls do the same thing every year), and I feel like 1500 ft lbs of energy is required... Well if you do the math, I'm prepared to shoot beyond 500 yards and that is why the ultra. Do yo realize how light the medallion is after setting down the Sendero! Still wouldn't have changed a thing! lol
 
Yes, we have certainly given Cuz-Pat both sides (if we didn't scare him off).
Thanks, guys
Doug
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Nice to type chat with you as well!................1500 ft lbs. ay??? I`ve never checked my ballistics table beyond the 500 yard mark before.......... Well! Well! Looky what I find!...A 200 gr. Nosler A/B @ 2828 fps. MV with a BC of .588 has 1719 ft. lbs. of downrange energy at 600 yards! At 700 yards there is 1506 ft. lbs! I didn`t know that!.........However, I`m not going to purposely try for a 600 to 700 yard shot opportunity on bull elk or even try a shot at that distance; with a 300 RUM or otherwise! LOL!.............Yes! I have handled the Browning Micros with the 20" tubes and there are sweet and light! That Browning qualifys you as owning a,,,,,,, "Squeezer Special"..........................Laugh  
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I have a Weatherby SVM that has a very similar stock to the Sendero and also weighs about the same.  The weight didn't bother me so much as the stock design.  While it's great at the bench it's not handy to carry.  It feels even bigger than it looks and it definitely needs a solid rest.

Would a 257 Weatherby have the ballistics and energy needed for extended range Whitetail hunting?  For sure it'd have much less recoil and Remington for 2008 is making it in the CDL SF and LSS.
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No fella's, ya'll haven't scared me off. Just given me a lot to think about. That's what I needed.
 
Let me share a few more details that I left out and also tell you what I am considering as a result of your thoughts and ideas.
 
!. Whatever rifle or caliber that I choose, I am going to zero it at 300 yards, thereby reducing hold-over somewhat, although not eliminating it. Every cartridge that I have looked at, I have run the ballistics on a ballistic calculator at a 300 yard zero. My new rifle will be zeroed at 300 yards.
 
2. I am not going to shoot hand loads in this rifle, I do not reload. I will be shooting factory ammo right off the shelf.
 
3. I want a rifle/caliber combo that will allow me to capitalize on some of these 400-500 yard gas line shot opportunities without the bullet dropping like a rock before it  gets there. When it does get there I want it to have enough energy to do the job on a 200 lb. whitetail buck.
 
4. This rifle will only be used for this application, long range shots on the gas line.
 
Now, since you have given me so much to think about, I am not not opposed to looking at other rifles or calibers. Here is one I have looked at closely on the internet.
 
Sako 85 Finnlight or the Sako 85 Synthetic Stainless.
 
Either of these rifles in a 270WSM or 300WSM.
 
Here are the ballistics on the 270 WSM in a Remington Premier AccuTip Boat Tail 150 grain bullet:

 

Input Variables
Firearm type Rifle Sight Height 1.5
Bullet Weight (grains) 150 Ballistic Coefficient 0.525
Muzzle Velocity (fps) 3160 Temperature 59
Barometric Pressure (hg) 29.53 Relative Humidity 78%
Zero Range (yards) 300 Wind Speed (mph) 0


Ballistics Table in Yards
Premier AccuTip Boat Tail 150    150 gr., 0.525 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3160 3065 2972 2792 2619 2453 2293
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3326 3129 2942 2597 2285 2004 1751
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 1.3 3.1 3.8 0.0 -8.8 -23.4
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -2.4 -3.0 -1.8 0.0 2.1 4.5


The following table is provided as a "cheat sheet" that you can tape to your gun.
Ballistics Table in Yards
Premier AccuTip Boat Tail 150    150 gr., 0.525 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 1.3 3.1 3.8 0.0 -8.8 -23.4
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -2.4 -3.0 -1.8 0.0 2.1 4.5
 
Here are the ballistics on the 300 WSM in a Remington Premier AccuTip Boat Tail 180 grain bullet:

 

Input Variables
Firearm type Rifle Sight Height 1.5
Bullet Weight (grains) 180 Ballistic Coefficient 0.480
Muzzle Velocity (fps) 3010 Temperature 59
Barometric Pressure (hg) 29.53 Relative Humidity 78%
Zero Range (yards) 300 Wind Speed (mph) 0


Ballistics Table in Yards
Premier AccuTip Boat Tail 180    180 gr., 0.480 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3010 2910 2812 2622 2441 2266 2099
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3621 3384 3160 2748 2381 2052 1760
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 1.6 3.6 4.3 0.0 -10.1 -27.1
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -3.0 -3.4 -2.1 0.0 2.4 5.2


The following table is provided as a "cheat sheet" that you can tape to your gun.
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Your funny, squeezer... If I trade my Sendero off and was to shoot a 200 gr bullet at 2800 fps  and  sighted zero at 250... what would be the trajectory drop on this setup? lol
 
Remember trade offs or a tactical scope, right?
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'scape, as you alluded to, I believe your bad experience is simply a product of the wrong bullet selected for the job rather than the caliber.  I've had exactly the opposite experience with 7mm on game.  In real world conditions, there is practically no difference in terminal performance between .30 caliber and 7mm/.284 bullets of the same construction and similar SD impacting at similar velocities.
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My experience with the 7mm has been good as well.  Of the three Elk I have shot with it, none of them have went more than 10 yards before going down.  I typically shoot 162 or 175 partition type bullets.
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Originally posted by Countryscape Countryscape wrote:

Your funny, squeezer... If I trade my Sendero off and was to shoot a 200 gr bullet at 2800 fps  and  sighted zero at 250... what would be the trajectory drop on this setup? lol
 
Remember trade offs or a tactical scope, right?
................................Who said trade off your Sendero?? Wasnt%20Me NOPE! You keep it.  I don`t need or use a tactical scope!!.....................From my ballistics table, here are some interesting #`s for comparison using the 200 gr. Nosler A/B with a BC of .588. Zero is at 300 yards. For elk and just about everything else, I zero @ 300 yards!
 
300 RUM @ 3100 fps. (max. in my Sierra maunual) w/26" barrel; @ 400 yards, a -8.9" bullet drop with 2713 ft. lbs.................@ 500 yards a -23.4" bullet drop with 2406 ft. lbs.
 
300 WSM @ 2828 fps. (my chrony results) w/16.5" barrel; @ 400 yards, a -10.9" bullet drop with 2218 ft. lbs......................@ 500 yards a -28.8" bullet drop with 1956 ft. lbs.
 
 
With a MV difference of 272 fps. the difference in drop @ 400 yards is only 2" while the difference at 500 yards is only 5.4"..................The difference in downrange energy is 495 lbs. @ 400 yards and 450 lbs. @ 500 yards! Not as much energy as the RUM, but dead is dead and I don`t think that after getting nailed in the vitals, my eld will go anywhere!  Perhaps not as much of a difference in the trajectory dept. as you thought?................Like I said before, the only difference is,,,,I just aim a little higher! Wink And with my ARC rangefinder?Big%20Grin..........Well! I wouldn`t exactly bet on the elk!!!...................Not bad from my little "Squeezer Special" @ only 35.5" of OAL and 7 lbs. 6 oz. in total weight, including the 2.5-8x28 Nikon EER UCC mounted on the barrel as a scout scope!...........It is also my piggy blaster!!Pig   
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Originally posted by timber timber wrote:

I have a Weatherby SVM that has a very similar stock to the Sendero and also weighs about the same.  The weight didn't bother me so much as the stock design.  While it's great at the bench it's not handy to carry.  It feels even bigger than it looks and it definitely needs a solid rest.

Would a 257 Weatherby have the ballistics and energy needed for extended range Whitetail hunting?  For sure it'd have much less recoil and Remington for 2008 is making it in the CDL SF and LSS.
........................Good question!!!.............After consulting my external ballistics table, this is what I came up with for your 257 Wby., using a 120 gr. Nosler Part. with a BC of .391 @ a MV of 3200 fps., as shown in my Sierra manual as max. for a 26" tube. I`ll throw in the bullet drop specs too, assuming you are set to a 300 yard zero!
 
At 300 yards......2482 fps. w/1642 ft. lbs. energy. Bullet drop= 0"
At 400 yards......2267 fps. w/1369 ft. lbs. energy.       "         = -9.6"
At 500 yards......2063 fps. w/1133 ft. lbs. energy        "         = -26.0"
 
For whitetails, I think that a good solid 1000 lbs. of energy at impact should be the minimum! I would be more inclined to use the heavier 120 gr. bullet for 400 to 500 yard whitetail work. You have the better BC with more energy downrange!
 
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Timber!............Ooooops! I thought you already had a 257 Wby! You have the Wby. SVM! I read it wrong at first!.............To be honest here! If I were doing some long range whitetail hunting between 400 to 600 yards, the 257 Wby. would not be my first choice. I`d rather have a somewhat slower, heavier bullet with better BC for better energy downrange. Forget the MV!.......... Lighter and faster doesn`t mean better in the downrange ballistics dept!! Along with bullet drop, what matters is the ballistic specs at the target upon impact!!............I would opt for either a 270 WSM (a good 200 fps. increase over the 270 Win.), a 270 Wby. a 7mm either in the WSM or the Remy mag., a 280 Remy or a fast .30 in the 300 WSM, Win. Mag. or Wby. Mag..........Lighter bullets with less BC, drop off in downrange energy quicker, are subject to more bullet drop and are subject to have more problems with crosswinds...................With those calibers in mind, go find yourself a rifle to best suit your hunting enviornment. If your terrain is steep, hilly, or you are doing alot of hiking, get a lighter rig in one of the WSM`s. If you`re shooting from a stand then you can use a heavier rig! Either way, I`d go for less weight, because you never know what terrain you`ll be dealing with in the future!...............
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Why not a 7mm Rem Mag instead of an Ultra 7?  It's got pretty good ballistics and ammo is allot cheaper and easier to find.  
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Ok Squeezers...  not sure where to begin with you! I do plan on experimenting with the 200 grain accubond but if my speed ends up at 3100fps, I won't use it, regardless of my accuracy. We are speculating for sure, I'm guessing you don't know how well the 200 grain accubond  would shoot in your 16.5/ barrel and  I haven't  had  the chance to work on that load in mine.

When using my ballistic calculator big sqeeze,  (using the .588/ 200 grain Nosler A/B), I've got your downrange energy with your velocity pushing 2828 at under 1600 ft. lbs. While that energy is adaquate for even elk, you really tail off from there. At 700 yards, your energy has slowed to under 1,065 ft. lbs. Your trajectory when zeroed at 300 yards (5.5 inch high at 150 yards) I had  you at -12 inches at 400, dropped to -21.2 at 450 and shows -32 at 500 yards. Your drop at 700 yards... -104 inches.
 
I have a recipe for the .300 RUM for the 200 grain Nosler A/B and haven't a clue if my pressure or accuracy will hold up. But my ballistic from this load (if it will shoot), is much different than the 3100 fps that you suggest from the Sierra manual. This load shows getting 3306 fps using H -1000 powder using 95.5 grains and using the 200 grain with .588 BC. Regardless, I'm sure I can get speeds close to this but really don't know about accuracy at this point.  This load proved .067 moa with their test rifle...
 
With this speed, my ballistic looks much different. My energy at 500 yards is 2259 ft. lbs., at 700 yards,  I'm within my energy needs with 1600 ft. lbs. Not much different than when using the 180 grain load. My trajectory when zeroed at 300 yaards (3.7 inches high at 150 yards ) is -8.5 at 400, 15. at 450 and 23 at 500 yards. At 700 yards I'm -73.4 and -91 at 750. Easy to notice how your trajectory falls in 50 yard incremets when you start getting out. I do need a tactical scope for my ultra mag:)
 
Sqeezer, I'll say it one more time. Your short magnums have there place, lots of advantages for sure but they cannot perform with the ultra's at the distance I'm talking about.
 
Regarding the 7mm's. I have always known that the .284 has superior downrange accuracy, there like a javelin flying in mid air  and are no doubt loved by many who own them. I happened to have shyed away with this cartridge  because of my past  experience and was only stating what I have seen in person. I prefer the 30 calibers. the .308 does enter through the body cavity with a bigger whole diameter and I still believe if you polled  most guides (especially when hunting brown bears and the largest of game), they would prefer the .30 caliber over the 7mm... Just my opinion
 
 
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