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Reloading weatherby

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 18:09
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I'm just starting to load for a .300 Wby, and ran into questions already. I'm sure a couple of you are ready to run after all the questions you got on the wsm. Fortunately some of that wisdom will carry over to this I hope. Unfortunately all the equipment is different. I went with a Lee collet neck sizer die set. I read the directions, and comprehend them ok, but am not really sure how hard to push on the press handle. I tried one, and got some neck tension, but not sure if enough. I think it's probably ok, but how do you size them consistantly? I'm hoping you just push pretty hard, and they all come out the same, because they all get squished against the same mandrel.
 
Another thing I'm wondering about was primer pocket uniforming on Weatherby brass. Would you do it? I did it on the wsm, but more for ease of cleaning them after the first firing than anything. I never noticed huge accuracy improvements. I've noticed the pockets on the wby brass are much nicer and flatter on the bottom than on my old Win. cases, and the flash holes are actually round, and centered. I'm assuming that Norma drills their flash holes.
 
I noticed today that this Vanguard must be freebored like the Mark V's. I stuck a 185gr. Berger VLD in a case, pushed in the neck just enough to stay, and chambered it, and it never hit rifling. I figured I'd start with seating to magazine lenght, unless someone has a better idea. I haven't a clue, as usual.
 
Just one more thing. I looked up load data for this thing, and all the loads that I've seen don't come close to what Weatherby ammo claims. I've seen that before like the numbers were inflated, but I chronoed a 180gr. soft point at 3190 out of a 24" tube. Weatherby claimed 3240 out of a 26" Are the people writing the books backing down on the Weatherby loads for some reason?
 
Ok enough for now.................cramps in the hands.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 18:46
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  1- I've never used a collet die so can't help ya there. I use a .32ACP carbide sizer die on my .30 cal necks and expand with a Lyman "M" die.
 
  2- I uniform my primer pockets and deburr flash holes. Does it help? I don't know. I just don't mind doing it as it's a one time thing. Yea,Norma drills their flash holes.
 
  3- Magazine length is a good start.  You can always seat deeper. If your factory ammos accuracy satisfies ya,seat to that length.
 
  4- Norma loads to higher pressures than SAAMI stds.  That's why the books are lower,among other reasons. What data have you got that shows the highest velocity and with what powder and charge? Bbl length in the data? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 19:16
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Hey trigger
 
The Lee Collet does not give a lot of neck tension.  The mandrels are .001" to .002" under caliber diameter.  I sent off to Lee to have some undersize mandrels (only $5.00 each) made
 
and during the e-mail discussions Lee advised me that increasing bullet grip with undersize mandrels will increase the chances for runout.  That is one reason that using them in conjunction with the Lee Factory Crimp Die works best for me. 
 
If you use the mandrel that comes with it then the .001" to .002" bullet grip will indeed yield low runout.  Crimping them with the LFCD takes the worry of that low bullet grip out of the situation for me.
 
The die does not work like normal dies in that you do not want to set the die in the press so that it cams over or the lever bottoms out.  The Lee instructions will tell you to hit the shell holder and back the die back up another 2 turns.  I use them a lot and just back the lock nut up to the top of the threads.  This will put the press lever in the most horizontal position possible
 
that makes it easier to gauge how much weight you are putting on the handle.  The instructions say only about 25 pounds.  If you put too much you will pop the aluminum cap off the threads and then it is trash.
 
Weatherby's usually have a distance to the lands from .200" to .300" and it is part of their strategy to use more of their slow burning powder and the extra throat will essentially increase the combustion chamber size.  Their factory loads are usually very close to or at max and if you are approaching factory velocity then you are close to trouble.  Mag length is usually a limiting factor also.  The load books do give anemic data but if you are close to Weatherby velocity the be careful.
 
Weatherby brass is usually excellent stuff and they spend extra bucks on it.  I would not mess with the primer pocket or turn the necks.  Trim, chamfer and load.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 19:27
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Excellent info from both of you. Thank you very much. I noticed I didn't have a lot of neck tension, that's why I asked the question. I also (at your suggestion) bought a Lee factory crimp die. I think I'll load these the first time without uniforming the pockets, and crimp them, and see how they shoot loaded to magazine length. Thanks fellers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 20:19
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

 
 
  4- Norma loads to higher pressures than SAAMI stds.  That's why the books are lower,among other reasons. What data have you got that shows the highest velocity and with what powder and charge? Bbl length in the data? 
 
I guess this would be why I have ejector marks, and cratered primers in my factory empties!
 
Anyway, I looked at the Hodgdon site, and for 180gr. btsp they list 75.5 gr IMR 4831 for a velocity of 2997, and IMR 7828 @ 80.5 for 3064
 
88.5 gr. H1000 gives 3150, but that is still not what I can get with factory ammo. It would be close enough though, I'm using a much higher b.c. bullet, and will make up some ground. Do I just need to get some H-1000, or retumbo to get more speed with this caliber? I thought RL-25 would have been plenty slow, but the best loads seem to be compressed loads of Retumbo.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 21:36
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  Ejector marks I don't like. Looks like what your getting with factory ammo is high pressure.  If you have a .30 cal flat base bullet,barely put it tip first into a casing and chamber it to see if it will hit the lands(push into the casing). See how it compares with a factory cartridge.
  Here's what I have come up with for loads. These are in 26"bbls. If you have RL-22 the highest velocity I've found with a 180gr bullet is 3195.  If you want to get IMR7828 the highest velocity I've found with a 180gr is 3212. What primers are you using?
 
     RL-22   Start = 77gr        Max = 81.5gr
 
     IMR7828   Start = 79gr    Max = 83.5gr
 
  Go up a grain at a time watching your velocities and for signs of pressure. For right now don't go past those max loads. Let's see what ya get.
 
   What do ya think?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 07:26
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regardless of what powder you choose your going to want to stuff about as much of it in that wby as you can, they tend to perform better that way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 17:50
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Trigger before getting technical with the thing just load a few rounds in a normal fashion and see what it does then tailor from there I have never seen a finicky Weatherby cartridge especially a 300 but that dosen't mean one dosen't exist!  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 10:06
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" I'm hoping you just push pretty hard, and they all come out the same, because they all get squished against the same mandrel. "
 
That's pretty much it.  Pushing more after the necks are fully down only stresses the press body for nothing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 18:47
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Well, I just tried my first loads. I used Berger's load data for the 185gr. VLD's. According to their data, 72.0 gr. of RL-22 gives 2800fps, and 78.5gr. gives 3057. I don't know if their data is for rifles that aren't freebored, or what but 76gr. gave me 2700-2720fps. Then it was time for the IMR 7828ssc. Data showed 72.5gr. gave 2826, and 78.7 gave 3073. I had 78.0 gr. give me 2850. Does my rifle just not make as much pressure as they get? I would hate to think that I'll go up to their max, and not get any velocity. Any ideas?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 19:05
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I don't think Berger actually creates their own data in real life. They use Quick load or some other computer generated data, and all will vary, Weatherby uses test barrels and they are not the same as on our rifles and their data is exaggerated a bit. My Nosler book shows ,
76gr @2945
78gr@3039
80@3132
 but with the Nosler bullets
As for the 7828 my hodgdon book shows
75gr@2583
80.5@3064  this is not the ssc but regular should be right on?


Edited by rifle looney - March/13/2009 at 19:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 20:01
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I'm thinking Weatherby's data is not exaggerated too far. For my 180 soft points they claim 3240 in a 26" barrel. I got 3190 out of my 24" on a 40 degree day. I'm wondering if I could start at about 78 grains, and work up slowly? Obviously I'm not running a lot of pressure yet. With the 7828 I only get 2850 out of 78gr. I think I'll stick at 78gr, and work up from there With the RL-22 I'd like to bump up to 78gr. and work up also. Do they show any data for H-1000?
 
Thanks for the data looney! Good to see you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 20:04
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Trigger, another thing about the Lee neck sizing dies are that the inner mandrel is a single cut one.  I recently found a blurb in their paperwork that recommended rotating the casing 90 degrees and sizing a second time too help snug up the bullet fit.  Should have the same effect as Sakomato's reduced diameter decapper/ expander rods (which I think is the real fix/answer) .  I even tried removing my expander from the neck size die totally and the increase in bullet seating force was a noticible increase.
 
I also keep a bullet next to tthe press and test fit each case to make sure they are not too loose.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 20:09
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I used a Lee factory crimp die to increase start pressure...........obviously didn't increase enough. If the first load is any indication of how this thing is going to shoot, I'll be happy as I can be though.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 20:11
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Trigger,,,,on H1000 they have,
83.0 @ 2971
88.5 Compressed  @ 3151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 20:16
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Thank you sir. Now I just have to figure out what to load. That is the down fall. I only have 12 cases to work with until my brass gets here next week.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 21:09
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One word of..... CAUTION  ......hope you guy's look this data up for your self to double check?
I check when I write it, and again before I post it. But be safe in all accounts.  Shocked

                                                

                                         


Edited by rifle looney - March/13/2009 at 21:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 21:16
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I usually reference data from at least two locations. I don't have nosler data, and of course these aren't Nosler bullets, but I'll start low enough, I'll be ok. I was just checking that Berger's data really was that low. There was not near as much muzzle blast or recoil from my handloads as the factory ones. What little recoil I did have was not very sharp either. More of just a push. I'm sure that since they were so slow, they didn't buck like the real deal. Thanks Looney.
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