New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - reloading for a short barrel 308
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

reloading for a short barrel 308

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2013 at 14:01
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 22676
Alright guys need some help...
 
My son had his Stevens 308's barrel cut down to 16.5".  When he did the accuracy with our current loads went from sub MOA to about 3 MOA.  So I now need to develop a new load for it.  I will be using 180Gr Nosler Partitions.  The old loads used Varget.  With the shorter barrel I'm thinking I'll need to go to a faster burn rate powder like H4895 or Benchmark.
 
Who here has recipes for shorter barrel 308 loads and what are they?
 
Thanks in advance
 
Bud
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2013 at 14:33
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 16008
How long was the barrel before, Bud? Are you saying that the same loads that shot well BEFORE the barrel was cut, won't shoot now? 

I lost a little velocity when I went from 26" to 20", but I didn't loose any accuracy with the same recipe. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2013 at 14:40
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 721
Sure the crown is square to the bore?
 
try H9895 in the 39 to 40 grain range with large brass ( Hornady, Winchester, Lapua, Blackhills) and wlr primers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2013 at 15:05
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Offline
Points: 2166
Yeah, I'm on that train...

I would be pissed.

You will not loose MOA you might loose velocity and a little distance or bullet drop but not MOA spread or roundness.

I would be checking with the Smith to see what he will do for you.

13-14 inches is short for .308 16.5 is plenty depending on twist and bullet weight...


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2013 at 15:22
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 21836
id try a different bullet, the partition isnt exactly a house of fire in the accuracy dept. maybe try the accubond???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2013 at 16:21
MC Escher View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: September/25/2012
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 119
I have a sneaking suspicion that eliminated several inches of barrel and the rifling that went with it means that your son's rifle will no longer stabilize as heavy a bullet as it used to.

This assumes there are no burs on the muzzle that could affect bullet flight. A very slight chamfer at the end of the bore might be helpful in that regard.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2013 at 22:02
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4036
Sounds like a bad crown.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 07:52
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 27160
Bud I had my SPS tactical cut down to 16" and didn't loose a thing.  The crown must be messed up or when they cut it maybe there is a burr in the bore, take a cotton swab and put it in the barrel and pull it out around the edges and see if it catches on anything.  Otherwise the crowns messed up.  I still hold the same groups in mine using varget for supersonic loads. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 07:54
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 21836
where is that thread from a while back where they cut an inch at time or something like that and reported all the data???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 08:14
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
 
 Sounds like something wasn't done right,Bud.
 
 Here's a bbl length vs velocity test by gunsmith Charlie Sisk:

[ QUOTE ]
For a long time I have wondered about how barrel length
affected velocity. I had always been told you need a certain
length barrel for certain calibers. I have read when folks
compared one gun to another with different lengths but I
always thought that was not an apples to apples comparision.
So I did a few test myself.
All these were Shilen barrels. I used the same brass through
out the whole test. All weighed to with 1 grain. Bullets
were tested on the Juenke machine. Powder charges were
weighed to .1 grain. The same rest, chronograph, Redding
press, primers all from the same lot, bullets for the same
box, same lathe, same crowning tool, same cutoff tool, and
each rifle done from start to finish on the same day.
Ambient temperature was the same because I shoot from inside
the shop. I held the rifle the same way on the rest every
time. I shot ten rounds first to break in the barrel. Then
cleaned with Sweets and fired one fouling shot. Then shot
five rounds and took the average. I used a midrange load
fron the Nosler book, not too hot but certainly not a
reduced load. Here is what I got.

22-250 Hodgdon 380 34 grains Federal GM210M Remington brass
55 grain Ballistic Tip
27 inches 3469 fps
26 3451
25 3425
24 3407
56 fps from highest to lowest

270 Winchester Hodgdon 4350 54 grains Federal GM210M
Winchester brass 130 grain Sierra
27 inches 3115 fps
26 3093
25 3071
24 3054
23 3035
22 3027
21 3001
114 fps from highest to lowest

300 Winchester mag Federal GM215M Winchester brass 74 grains
of Reloder 22 180 grain Partition
27 inches 3055 fps
26 3031
25 3024
24 3003
23 2984
22 2960
95 fps from highest to lowest

340 Weatherby Federal GM215M 250 grain Sierra
81 grains Reloder 22 Wby brass
27 inches 2837 fps
26 2817
25 2809
24 2791
23 2777
22 2755
21 2731
106 fps from highest to lowest

I think I will do a little more thinking before I recommend
a barrel length in the future. What do you folks think ?
Charlie


Here is the info about the 338 Win and the 257 Roberts.
338 Win mag
Winchester brass
Federal GM215M primers
Reloder 19....73 grains
250 grain Partitions
27 inches.....2806 fps
26 inches.....2787 fps
25 inches.....2761 fps
24 inches.....2743 fps
23 inches.....2716 fps
22 inches.....2697 fps
21 inches.....2676 fps
20 inches.....2656 fps
150 fps from 27 inches to 21 inches

257 Roberts
Federal GM210M primers
Remington brass
H-4350....45 grains
120 grain Partitions
27 inches.....2860 fps
26 inches.....2834 fps
26 inches.....2815 fps
25 inches.....2815 fps
24 inches.....2798 fps
23 inches.....2775 fps
22 inches.....2760 fps
21 inches.....2739 fps
20 inches.....2717 fps
143 fps from 27 inches to 20 inches
I want to test this on the next 450 Marlin I build and on a
222 Remington. If I get the same results with those, in my
mind the test is over. I think this will be enough data to
support the findings. Are there any folks out there who have
a degree in this sort of thing ? Maybe explain how many data
points would be needed to be able to say this would work
with the majority of calibers ? Someone with experience in
statistical(spell check) quality control ?
Charlie

A few weeks ago I done some testing with shortening barrels
with various calibers. I just finished this test with a 300
Ultra.
These loads were EXTREMELY HOT !!!!!!!!!
I will not post the grains here because on the third loading
the primer would fall out of the case . I never load this
hot , only this time for the test. I used Remington brass,
Federal GM215M primers, 220 grain round nose bullets. I used
the same procedures as the last test.
length.... H-4895 .....H-870
.....27 .....2740 .....3107 FPS
.....26 .....2709 .....3088
.....25 .....2685 .....3062
.....24 .....2663 .....3046
.....23 .....2636 .....3018
.....22 .....2612 .....2997
H-4895 lost 128 fps
H-870 lost 110 fps
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 08:38
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 21836
here is one example i pulled off the net, keep in mind its a .223 not a .308 though.....



http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 08:57
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
 
   A 10" bbl?! 
 
  Over 550fps loss with that VVN 135 max load.  Quite a loss.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 08:59
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 21836
i imagine that you dont get complete burn in that short distance???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 09:15
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
 
  Not sure but guessing bbl length has more to do with it.
 
  Once you go from 18" down the loss get kind of symetrical.
 
  18" to 17"= 51fps
                      52
                      54
                      47
                      54
                      55
                      58
  11" to 10"    63
                     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 10:00
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 22676
Thanks for all the input guys.  I've looked at the crown umteen times and can see no burrs or ilregularities....  Have tried 130, 150, 168Gr and am about to try 180gr partitions.  The lighter bullets were amax and HPBTs.  I have to think gunny did somein wrong somewhere.  Son's afraid to take it back to same gunny.  Wants to try recrowning himself!!! Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 10:03
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 22676
OH BTW the stevens was stock so I believe it was 24" before.  All the loads that weren't grouping were using Varget too.  I was thinking of trying a fastwe powder but wnated to bounce things off you guys first.  I think I'm gonna try and talk my son into returning it to gunny for eval...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 10:10
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 27160
Just be cautious of him wanting to start over.  You only have .5" to work with. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 10:16
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 22676
Yeah I know!  Son uses this 308 for Deer and Bear.  Bear hunting is on mountainside in thick laurel which is why he wanted shorter barrel.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 10:23
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 14668
Bud, use short ammo...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 10:35
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4036
If the crown looks good (or at least before trying to tinker with it further) try some IMR 3031. Work it up stout as you can without over pressure signs. (All .308 loads I've ever shot well were on the high side). You may have to have him switch down to 165 or 170 gr. Partitions too. If you can get inside of 2 MOA, call it good for that barrel.
 
Now, consider for the future getting a custom barrel...and one done by a good smith. I was amazed at the velocities I got with my Rock Creek 24" vs. a Rem. 5R SS 24"...went from 2725 to 2795 fps. I'd bet that a comparable 16" barrel would still yield 25-30 more fps. That's not much, but they're almost always more accurate when smithed right and easier to clean too. In fact, I'm making that bet with my .308 AR build...going with a Rainier Arms Ultramatch barrel.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 10:38
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 22676
short jokes from the little guy... Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 11:25
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

OH BTW the stevens was stock so I believe it was 24" before.  All the loads that weren't grouping were using Varget too.  I was thinking of trying a fastwe powder but wnated to bounce things off you guys first.  I think I'm gonna try and talk my son into returning it to gunny for eval...
 
  If it shot good before it should shoot good now unless something wasn't done right.  He paid his hard earned money for the work done.  I'd be taking it back.  And not necessarily with an attitude.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 12:29
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 22676

And the plot thickens....

 
Son just told me the barrel was hacksawed  then trued on a gun lathe.  He also said he tried the following off the shelf loads.
 

150gr rem

150gr fusion

180gr rem

180gr win

180gr fusion

All of the above were factory store bought loads.

The fusion 150gr shot best @ around 2”MOA

 

I also shot 180gr handloads (nos partition?)

180gr handloads (something with ballistic tip)

200gr handloads (nos partition?)

All of the handloads shot worse than the fusion 150gr

The gun definetly needs to go back to the smith!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 12:33
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Offline
Points: 2166
do yourself a favor and find a reputable smith .500 is enough but that is all you get not room for error make sure they target crown it.
 
Good luck I hope you can get it to shoot for you...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2013 at 12:40
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 22676
I hear ya!  Its aggrevating the guy didn't do a better job the first time.
 
Think I'll take it to my FFL today when I pick up my new Mossberg 715T Big Grin
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "reloading for a short barrel 308"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
reloading 308 ? fatboy15th Reloading & Ballistics 14
Sako hunter 308 - accuracy and reloading shooter4 Reloading & Ballistics 1
DPMS LAR-308 Reloading? outdoorsmen77 Reloading & Ballistics 5
Howa Heavy Barrel Compact 308 cpwomack Firearms 5
Savage 308 20" Barrel krammermedic Firearms 8
Zhumell Short Barrel 8x42 FrankD Binoculars 5
short barrel .30 cals.... www.technika.nu Firearms 97
Short barrel ’06 load scubasteve Reloading & Ballistics 1 10/14/2007 1:43:50 PM
Good 308 Scope and 308 Drop YWHIC Rifle Scopes 3
IMR 4064 for a 308 Gil P. Reloading & Ballistics 5


This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.