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Reloading for a BAR 30-06

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 21:44
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Finally decided to start reloading.  Tired of having to site-in my rifle every year because of new ammo.  Want to work up a decent Whitetail load that I will be able to re-create over and over again without having to site-in every year!

I know I have a lot to learn, so to start with, are there any nuances specific to a semi-auto?  I would like to use the Barnes TTSX bullets.  Please fire away with any suggestions you have!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 21:50
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You can't play with seating depth like you can with a bolt action, eliminates a lot of VLD bullets.  I suggest Winchester silver tips if you can get them.  I also believe Lapua makes 30-06 brass.  I've heard it is about as good, reloads more, as it gets. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 22:18
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I see that VLD a lot... is that a type or a manufacture?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 04:58
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Very Low Drag...  I think Berger started the trend, at least they have gotten the most press, but there are a number of other makers out there.  Brian Litz, former Air Force aerodynamicist, is the ballistician for Berger and he is using modern scientific methods to bring bullet making into the 21st century.  He is quite good.  He worked with some of the same AF organizations I did, but came after I was gone from that particular area of endeavor.  Wish I had been able to meet him, smart guy from all I can see. 

VLD's typically have G7 based BC's (applicable thoughout the flight regime rather than G1 which is, really and truly, point-based.  G7 is developed using multiple points over long range, typically with Doppler RADAR, G1 is "standard shape based" or using short range firings).  The discussion of G7 vs G1 is quite involved, so the above is the simplistic approach to explaining.  Once you get a G7 BC for a bullet, you will be able to produce a much closer curve fit to the actual trajectory, if you have a G7 capabable ballistic program.  JBM has a G7 capability.  Differences in projected impact points at longer ranges between G1 and G7 BC's can be quite significant. 
With these new bullets and simulations, it's a wonder we EVER hit anything before. 
As an addendum, the VLD's are performing quite well in hunting situations...


Edited by Kickboxer - October/28/2009 at 21:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 09:33
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Wow! But the major consideration then should be what the bullet does when it DOES hit something. In the case of small animals like whitetail, I have settled in on the Hornady SST (Super Shock Tip) in 165 grain. With an excellent ballistics coefficient, the bullet has also provided perfect expansion for me in whitetails in distances to 400 yards. These days there are a quadzillion good choices in bullets, but I have found they needn't be "designer" names nor expensive to perform fabulously in the field.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 09:57
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:


I know I have a lot to learn, so to start with, are there any nuances specific to a semi-auto?  I would like to use the Barnes TTSX bullets.  Please fire away with any suggestions you have!


Full length resize every time.  I have a BAR 7mm and .243 and if I don't full length every time I get failure to feed problems now and then.  With the full length they seem to function much better. 

Because of that the brass will wear out much faster so make sure you are inspecting it often and if you question anything on the brass just throw it away. 

It looks like you can use Varget in that round.  I would consider it, it makes for a good hunting powder as it does not vary velocities much based on outside temps.  Here it could be 30 in the morn and by afternoon it is 70, so it is nice to have a powder that does not vary.

The downside to Varget is some claim it varies from lot to lot more than a few other powders.  So you will want to buy enough of it to last you for a while.  If you cannot get the exact same lot, just buy 3 or 4 lbs of what you can and mix them all together then you have the same lot.  Or best yet buy an 8lb jug, if it works well for you.

I use it in .223 .243, and .308 and have had very good luck with it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:13
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just so I get the concept.... full length resize means to trim the length of the brass at the neck end..... can't trim the base!  Does the chamber keep the shoulder from expanding forward?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:19
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Also, never thought about powders that changed at different temps.... how do you find out about that kind of info.  Is there a manual that explains some of that stuff?  I plan to reload for both hunting and shooting/target.  Different guns for each and different calibers.  .204, .223, 22-250, .243, .270 & 30-06 for hunting and .308 for target.  Have BARs in .243 and the above mentioned '06.  For now, will be concentrating on the hunting loads and the '06 in particular because I don't have very much factory ammo.... have guite a bit .270 and enough .243 to last this year and next.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:29
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BTW.... my rifle shot the Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertips very well!  Both the 150s and I think 168..thats why I thought I would try the TTSXs.  Picked some up in 150 grns.  Need to figure out which powder to use and how much to start with.  My buddy has several different powders, so hoping to use one of them, but will buy if that makes more sense.... like changes with temp.

Edited by Tip69 - October/28/2009 at 21:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:32
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Full length means running it through a full length die.  They have full length dies that smash teh entire case back to normal size.  Or they have just neck sizing dies that only smash the neck back to normal size.

With full length sizing you will need to trim more often.  But not necessarily every time.  You will just have to measure your brass after each firing and see if it is needed.

I am sure some books could give you info about powder burn rates and temp charts.  Also forums like this could get you info from people that has used them. 
That was one of the reasons I use varget, it shoots accurately in all my guns and I can shoot it in any temp and not have to worry about velocity/pressure spikes as you might have to with some other powders.

Varget would actually work in all the calibers that you listed.  It may not give the very best groups with everything depending upon other factors.  But I dare bet it will work pretty well with any of them.  If you want to keep things simple that is a good way to go.  I honestly buy new calibers based on what powder they use sometimes so I can keep things simple and only have to have a few powders on hand.

I just use H4198, H4831, Varget, H110 and Titegroup.  That way I can just buy bulk and not have to have 15 or 20 different powders laying around I have to worry about mixing up.  Once I found what worked well with my guns, I just stayed with those instead of constantly trying to find something better.  Its just my way, but it works good for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:34
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

Also, never thought about powders that changed at different temps.... how do you find out about that kind of info.  Is there a manual that explains some of that stuff?  I plan to reload for both hunting and shooting/target.  Different guns for each and different calibers.  .204, .223, 22-250, .243, .270 & 30-06 for hunting and .308 for target.  Have BARs in .243 and the above mentioned '06.  For now, will be concentrating on the hunting loads and the '06 in particular because I don't have very much factory ammo.... have guite a bit .270 and enough .243 to last this year and next.
I have .243 and 30-06 BAR's as well.  06 has BOSS, .243 does not... 
There are some really good books out there on powder variations, etc related to reloading.  I can't remember the names of any at the moment, but I suspect there are a number who will tune you up pretty quickly.  Since I gave up reloading I haven't paid much attention.  Should, just don't...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:40
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This page has info about a lot of powders and tells you about temp issues and other pros and cons.  It is a good resource.  http://www.reloadbench.com/gloss/powders.html

Here is the sitemap for the site, it has a ton of good info.  I read stuff regularly.  http://www.reloadbench.com/sitemap.html


Edited by supertool73 - October/28/2009 at 21:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:42
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ST - what you do is exactly what I want to do..... find a recipe that works and stay with it.... it doesn't have to be super accurate, just enough to take whitetails!  We did get the "Full Length Die" 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:47
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

ST - what you do is exactly what I want to do..... find a recipe that works and stay with it.... it doesn't have to be super accurate, just enough to take whitetails!  We did get the "Full Length Die" 
Cool.  It's definitely a fun hobby.  Just follow the directions that come with the full length dies, or any reputable reloading manual.Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:48
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I do have quite a bit of the Winchester Supreme brass.... silver cases.... are they very good to reload?  Just been used once, obviously! Some are from the early "Fail Safe" loads.  Have guite a bit of Remington Core Lokt brass as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 21:57
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I used to sell my fail safe "brass" for quite a bit more than "normal" brass to a dealer at a regular gun show in Huntsville.  He said it was great stuff. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2012 at 10:56
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In the BAR 30-06
 
Suggest use RCBS Small Base Sizer Die
 
Suggest IMR 4350 @ 57.0 with Nosler BT or AB in WW Brass with Fed 210Match Primer
 
Loaded the BAR since early 70's.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2012 at 10:59
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Also Get a Speer Reloding Manual it has a good article on reloading for Semi-Auto Rifles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2012 at 11:08
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Welcome to the OT, Red Team.  You've dredged up a pretty old thread, but the info is still good.  Thank you for the input.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2012 at 13:26
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I had good success loading both 165 and 180 grain Sierra GameKings in my .06 BAR. I settled on IMR 4064 and used RCBS small base dies. After some time I found I could back off and not full length resize.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2012 at 13:35
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I've used IMR 4895 and Speer 165 grain Hot-Cors in my .30-06 Remingtons with great results (DRT) on deer and antelope.  This is true of both a previously-owned Remington Model 742 semi-auto and a currently-owned Remington 7600 pump.  The 165 grain was more accurate in my rifles than the 150 grain.  You don't need expensive "super-bullets" for deer and antelope. 
 
I haven't tried Speer's new Deepcurls, but they should work as well.  As for temperature sensitivity, you might try H4895 instead of IMR 4895.  I recently bought some H4895 to try in my favorite loads for just that reason.  H4895 is one of Hodgdon's non-temperature sensitive "Extreme" powders.
 
I can't speak knowledgably about reloading for Browning semi-auto rifles, since I haven't owned one.  However, I did not have to full-length resize for either of my Remington rifles.  Instead, I neck-sized or used the Lee collet dies.  Brass fire-formed to your rifle's chamber is likely to be more accurate when reloaded.
 
If you load your rounds hot, of course, you will probably need to full-length resize.  However, a .30-06 works just fine on deer and antelope with moderate (i.e., mid-level) loads.  Also, brass will stretch after a certain number of firings.
 
Lots of helpful thoughts above from other OT members. 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2013 at 14:53
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shoot, I forgot I even opened this thread!   Got the Hornady dies... read something about them being better for semi-autos.  have worked up a load with Varget, Win LR primers and Win brass that both my  BAR and my son's A-Bolt likes with Nosler Balistic Tips in 150 grn. 

now I have to find a winning combo for my new .260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2013 at 16:02
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The Hornady dies size the brass just tad smaller than rcbs FL dies a plus in the BAR.
Really like the Hornady bullet seater die also.

My load for my BAR 3006

57.0 of IMR 4350
180 gr bt or AB
Ww brass
Fed 210m

165 gr aB or bt
57.5 of IMR 4350
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2013 at 19:00
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I'm going to make two suggestions, which you are free to take or leave and which come with no warranty that I'm not talking out of my posterior:


One, use good brass and CCI primers, which tend to be a bit harder.
You don't have to buy the absolute best out there, but Starline makes a good product and a reasonable price. Oh and, btw... some folks like to use magnum primers even in a loading that calls for a regular one, in order to ensure reliable ignition in cold weather. I don't personally see anything wrong with that, providing you realize that you need to back down the max load slightly. After all, it does get cold in Nebraska. Well, it did in Kansas when I was stationed there and I don't reckon it's any warmer when you go another State north. Just be advised that magnum primers will sometimes give you a wider velocity spread and you may decide it isn't worth it.

Later on, if you're of a mind to, you can get into annealing your own brass. Don't worry about that for now.



My second suggestion is to take a look at 8208XBR, which ironically I just got done suggesting someone else NOT use because it seemed like the wrong application for it.

IMR has a line of powders that are designed to be insensitive to to temperature changes and they're the ones with 4 numbers in the name. I know... the other brands do as well, but I was thinking specifically about the 8208XBR.

I'm not for sure, but I believe the XBR stands for "Experimental Bench Rest".

Anyhow, 8208 seems to have a very low velocity spread and reliable ignition in cold weather.
That'll give you a good, consistent muzzle velocity, which is the key to repeatable accuracy.


As for the bullets, just choose something known to be reliable on whatever you're hunting. Or just follow the recipe that you choose.

That's it, those are my thoughts.
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