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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 02:46
scavaleru View Drop Down
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   I am in a big dilemma.I want to buy my first scope but is very hard.Now I think I have to choose between a Leupold illuminated and a regular Zeiss(Qonquest).I know the lens is better to Zeiss even in less light,but a illuminated scope is very useful especially in less light,when sometimes you can't see the hair cross.Please give me some advices to know what to do.The money:max.1000 dollars.My goal:Zeiss Diavary with Reticle 60 Varipoint.But is too expence.I don't understand why Zeiss didn't make Quonquest illuminated.
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I think illuminated is kind of a gimmick, if you got good glass and the Conquest is good glass you won't need an illuminated recticle.  mY Conquest pulls in enough light that I can hunt all the way till the end of legal shooting hours and even beyond anything past that point is not ethical or safe to pull the trigger.
 
Example for comparison I was able to see things way after the sun went down such as a jack rabbit in our vinyard (approximatly 85-100 yards away) that was too dark to see with my own eyes which are not 110% any more but still pretty darn good Wink
 
Id rather have the better glass myself.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 07:55
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Originally posted by Acenturian Acenturian wrote:

I think illuminated is kind of a gimmick, if you got good glass and the Conquest is good glass you won't need an illuminated recticle.  mY Conquest pulls in enough light that I can hunt all the way till the end of legal shooting hours and even beyond anything past that point is not ethical or safe to pull the trigger.
 
Example for comparison I was able to see things way after the sun went down such as a jack rabbit in our vinyard (approximatly 85-100 yards away) that was too dark to see with my own eyes which are not 110% any more but still pretty darn good Wink
 
Id rather have the better glass myself.
 
Plus 1.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 08:37
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You can see through the Zeiss ;)  The illuminated reviews sound like Goldie locks and the three bears... Too Bright, too Dark, the adjustment is never just right.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 08:39
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a good scope that has illuminated reticle even in daylight, is pretty hard to beat for hunting or matches. Most hunting scopes that have ill. reticles aren't daytime. The NXS series have reticles that work in both envoirnments and others but the price just doubled. In a previous post Rifledude enumerated the best collection of reasons I've seen to date for ill. Use the search engine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 08:53
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 I don't think anyone is saying that illumination doesn't have it's place, Dale, but this guy's on a budget, and his dollars need to go toward glass quality, since he can't afford both.
 Illumination inside poor glass is a waste of money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 08:56
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Go with the Conquest!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 08:59
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 Go with a heavier reticle if you anticipate low-light hunting.
 I think the Zeiss #4 reticle is one of the thicker ones, but the Zeiss fans here know a lot more about them than I do.
 


Edited by RONK - October/11/2009 at 09:01
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 09:20
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Originally posted by Acenturian Acenturian wrote:

I think illuminated is kind of a gimmick, if you got good glass and the Conquest is good glass you won't need an illuminated recticle.  mY Conquest pulls in enough light that I can hunt all the way till the end of legal shooting hours and even beyond anything past that point is not ethical or safe to pull the trigger.
 
Example for comparison I was able to see things way after the sun went down such as a jack rabbit in our vinyard (approximatly 85-100 yards away) that was too dark to see with my own eyes which are not 110% any more but still pretty darn good Wink
 
Id rather have the better glass myself.
This may be true for deer hunting, but if you hog hunt where your shots are often just before or after dark you need an illuminated reticle. Here are illum scopes I have had good luck with.
 
Bushnell 4200 Elite 2.5-10x50
Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40 and 2.5-10x56, with crosshair/green dot
Burris Fullfield Euro 30 3.5-10x50
 
All work extremely well in low light to dark situations. I have a Zeiss Victory 2.5-10x50 illum and do not like it as well as the above listed scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 10:43
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What is that you don't like about the illumination on the Victory?
I have one-not mounted yet. Looks OK scoping things in my back yard.
Does it behave differently in a real hunting situation?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 12:45
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 Don't rule out a Bushnell 4200 with the Firefly reticle...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 16:23
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Originally posted by 1911man 1911man wrote:

Originally posted by Acenturian Acenturian wrote:

I think illuminated is kind of a gimmick, if you got good glass and the Conquest is good glass you won't need an illuminated recticle.  mY Conquest pulls in enough light that I can hunt all the way till the end of legal shooting hours and even beyond anything past that point is not ethical or safe to pull the trigger.
 
Example for comparison I was able to see things way after the sun went down such as a jack rabbit in our vinyard (approximatly 85-100 yards away) that was too dark to see with my own eyes which are not 110% any more but still pretty darn good Wink
 
Id rather have the better glass myself.
This may be true for deer hunting, but if you hog hunt where your shots are often just before or after dark you need an illuminated reticle. Here are illum scopes I have had good luck with.
 
Bushnell 4200 Elite 2.5-10x50
Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40 and 2.5-10x56, with crosshair/green dot
Burris Fullfield Euro 30 3.5-10x50
 
All work extremely well in low light to dark situations. I have a Zeiss Victory 2.5-10x50 illum and do not like it as well as the above listed scopes.


Amen, Bill!  I use the same rifles for deer hunting and hog hunting, and even though the lit reticle isn't as much of a benefit for deer hunting during legal light, it is invaluable for hunting at night for hogs and predators.  Using lit reticles frequently allows me to take shots in darkness that would be very difficult to take with a conventional reticle.

Back to Leupold vs. Zeiss Conquest...  There was a time not long ago that I agreed that Conquest was optically superior to any Leupold.  With the new VX-3, I don't agree with that assumption anymore.  I think those two lines are basically equivalent now.  I give the Conquest the slight edge based solely on the fact it has fixed eye relief, though some of the Leupolds have a narrow enough variable ER range that it's not that big a deal in some scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 16:34
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by 1911man 1911man wrote:

Originally posted by Acenturian Acenturian wrote:

I think illuminated is kind of a gimmick, if you got good glass and the Conquest is good glass you won't need an illuminated recticle.  mY Conquest pulls in enough light that I can hunt all the way till the end of legal shooting hours and even beyond anything past that point is not ethical or safe to pull the trigger.
 
Example for comparison I was able to see things way after the sun went down such as a jack rabbit in our vinyard (approximatly 85-100 yards away) that was too dark to see with my own eyes which are not 110% any more but still pretty darn good Wink
 
Id rather have the better glass myself.
This may be true for deer hunting, but if you hog hunt where your shots are often just before or after dark you need an illuminated reticle. Here are illum scopes I have had good luck with.
 
Bushnell 4200 Elite 2.5-10x50
Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40 and 2.5-10x56, with crosshair/green dot
Burris Fullfield Euro 30 3.5-10x50
 
All work extremely well in low light to dark situations. I have a Zeiss Victory 2.5-10x50 illum and do not like it as well as the above listed scopes.


Amen, Bill!  I use the same rifles for deer hunting and hog hunting, and even though the lit reticle isn't as much of a benefit for deer hunting during legal light, it is invaluable for hunting at night for hogs and predators.  Using lit reticles frequently allows me to take shots in darkness that would be very difficult to take with a conventional reticle.

Back to Leupold vs. Zeiss Conquest...  There was a time not long ago that I agreed that Conquest was optically superior to any Leupold.  With the new VX-3, I don't agree with that assumption anymore.  I think those two lines are basically equivalent now.  I give the Conquest the slight edge based solely on the fact it has fixed eye relief, though some of the Leupolds have a narrow enough variable ER range that it's not that big a deal in some scopes.
 
Oh...plus 1!  Bucky  Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 18:00
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I really think illumination can be a big help even when shooting black targets with a black crosshair there may not be enough contrast to be as accurate on the target.  I have always owned leupolds and never owned the Zeiss Conquest.  I like the Conquest but I find that the Leupold has much more internal adjustment.  The VX3 and FX3 scopes are really quite useable glass.   I dont really think one has to have world class glass to kill a deer at 200 yds and closer which is where most are killed, I think it is much more important that the scope hold its adjustment.  The Super Sniper 3-9x42 is at least as good of glass as either of them and with better features, a reticle that is FFP so it can be used for known hold over at any power, knobs to dial in correction, mil mil etc.  The Trijicon Accupoint scopes are a very useful hunting scopes and the illumination does aid the eye in acquiring the target very rapidly.  There is a reason the military uses Aimpoints and ACOGs with illumination - speed matters.  For most  deer hunters it may not make a lot of difference, but how about that one in a lifetime monster buck that pops up and runs as you walk through the woods, I'd gladly hunt with only a one power 2moa Aimpoint.  After dark with coyotes or hogs or what goes bump in the night I find illumination to be a huge adjantage. Much of what is right depends on how you hunt.  If you hunt from a stand or blind and have a good solid rest by all means buy a Zeiss or Swarovski and I would rather have the used S off samplelist than a new Z Conquest.
10201 Swarovski 2.5-10x42 Professional Hunter 57049, Matte finish, illuminated 4NK reticle, 30mm tube, fast focus shock absorbing eye piece, reseatable windage and elevation, ring marks, (this scope DOES NOT come with the illuminator to illuminate the reticle) $1,975.00 $999.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 18:19
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10894 Leupold 4.5-14x50 VX-3 66665, Matte finish, Illuminated German #4 Dot reticle, Long Range, Side Focus, Metric adjustments, fast focus eye piece, xtended twilight lens system, new 2009 demo model   $829.95
Bushnell 4-16x40 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope Multi-X Bushnell 4-16x40 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope
Stock # - 424164SF
  • Matte
  • Multi-X
  • 1"
  • Rainguard
  • Side Focus
  • Great Glass Low Price
$499.95 
Add Bushnell 4-16x40 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope to Cart
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical Riflescope Mil-Dot SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
  • Thunbs Up
$599.95 
Add SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical Riflescope to Cart
Trijicon 2.5-10x56 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope Amber Triangle Trijicon 2.5-10x56 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR22
  • Matte
  • Amber Triangle
  • 30mm
  • Thunbs Up Illumination is always turned on
$806.95 
Add Trijicon 2.5-10x56 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope to Cart
Bushnell 2.5-10x50 Elite 4200 30mm Rifle Scope 4A w/ Illuminated Dot Bushnell 2.5-10x50 Elite 4200 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - 422152M
  • Matte
  • 4a w/ Illuminated Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rainguard
  • Side Battery Housing
$499.95 
Add Bushnell 2.5-10x50 Elite 4200 30mm Rifle Scope to Cart
Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope Rapid Z 600 Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - 5214609971
  • Matte
  • Rapid Z 600
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
  • $75 Mail-In Rebate
$574.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 19:19
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My Bad, I was thinking "deer" not hogs.  I have hunted piggy's but all have been shot in the same hours I would be deer hunting as well.  BUT I can see where in darkness that would be a benefit, given that the only one I have seen is the Trijicon and the little yellow triangle was pretty cool.   Also I have seen the Bushnell Firefly which I think is awsome when charged with a good flashlight
 
Perhaps looking at when I typed my early post I was thinking of some these Special Forces Night Opperations (feel free to through in your own tactical cool word Wink)  models that can be had for $100 given that,  I would rather have better glass then a lighted recticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2009 at 10:45
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Check out the Trijicon...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2009 at 10:14
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      Another question is:the marks on the scope is different.The Rapid Z 600 has small marks,but #4 has gross marks.How important is this in low light?Is it possible like Rapid Z not to observe very well?Thank you for you're answers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2009 at 10:55
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I'd take tracking/reliability over illumination unless you just need a hog scope. The SS 3-9 is a great choice if you don't need any higher than 9X.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2009 at 18:44
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   After all I bought a Zeiss 3-12x56.Reticle 20.I hope to be not very big for Rem 700 what I want to buy.Thank you for all the information.
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