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Recoil with polymer handguns?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2010 at 20:50
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The first handgun I ever had was a Springfield XD40 service model and I just didnt like the snappy type recoil. So I sold it to a buddy of mine who shoots it better. Then came the S&W 66... Great shooting gun but I wanted something with higher capacity. So I sold it. Then a glock 37 followed me home but it seemed a little snappy as well. Then a week later I picked up a S&W 629 which doesnt shoot too bad either.
Now the revolvers dont bother me as much.
Then I had the chance to shoot another guys Sig 220. It was like heaven. Nice slow push...
So Im scratching my head whenever someone says polymer handguns flex and reduce felt recoil. Now I admit that Ive never shot a polymer 45acp but is the 45gap more snappy or is it just the lack of weight to soak up recoil on the polymer guns?
Im eyeballing a Glock 30 but if its the polymer thats making recoil seem snappy Im going to pass. Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 01:47
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Oh yeah... Are there any glock 30 sized all steel handguns that offer 10 rounds of 45acp or more that I should look at?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 06:20
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Try the S&W  M&P  45.   Very well-behaved recoil.  Fun to shoot.   Better than lots of 9mm. 
 
      
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 06:39
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Polymer pistols are variable all over the place when i comes to recoil. Obviously the big factors are overall weight of pistol, length of barrel, spring selection among others. Glocks because they're basically all plastic weigh considerably less than just about anything else out there and they tend to be the snappiest. Less weight to hold the force of the shot down. And a lot is personal preference as well.

Genitron.com is a great website for checking out the recoil factor on pistols. It will give you the ft/lbs recoil factor for just about any pistol/revolver you can think of.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 11:44
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Originally posted by OVERK!LL OVERK!LL wrote:

Oh yeah... Are there any glock 30 sized all steel handguns that offer 10 rounds of 45acp or more that I should look at?
Para has Commander sized gun.   C-Z 97
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 11:51
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Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

Glocks because they're basically all plastic weigh considerably less than just about anything else out there and they tend to be the snappiest. Less weight to hold the force of the shot down. And a lot is personal preference as well.



That is an interesting/different observation.  I have had 8 different XDs/XDms and all of them except the 9mm had snappier recoil than the 3 Glock 23s that my dad and I have/had.  The larger Glocks like the 22 and 35 have even less snappy recoil.  That is one thing I have always like better about the Glock 23 vs the XDm .40 is the less snappy recoil.  I am sure it has to do with the more extreme angle of the grip.  Course I shoot the weaver stance with the push pull technique so that might make a big difference vs another type.


Edited by supertool73 - December/21/2010 at 11:56
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 11:52
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The M&P recoil stung my trigger finger like a mother.  Not sure why, but that trigger really got me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 12:49
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Be aware that the revolvers have very different grip geometry, that helps.

Personally, I have observed the polymer frame, long-barreled pistols to flex more than steel, soaking up recoil better than an all-steel gun would.  Granted, I shoot .45ACP, but the flex seems to dampen recoil to me.

But maybe it's just me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 13:39
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Grip geometry and the manner in which it positions your hand while shooting has a LOT to do with your perception of recoil. 
 
As does balance and the location of the pistol's center of gravity.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 13:47
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One other thing is how high you ride your hands on the grip.  I prefer to have my hands and high as they can possibly go.  Sometimes the web of my hand is actually spilling over the top of the beaver tail.  Some guns allow you to get higher than others based on the height of the slide over the grip.  I stack my thumbs as well so that would put my support hand higher which also helps in taming the recoil some. 

There are lots of ways/techniques to help tame the recoil.  Attending a good shooting school is a good way to get some ideas and learn some ways that work. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 15:19
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

One other thing is how high you ride your hands on the grip.  I prefer to have my hands and high as they can possibly go.  Sometimes the web of my hand is actually spilling over the top of the beaver tail.  Some guns allow you to get higher than others based on the height of the slide over the grip.  I stack my thumbs as well so that would put my support hand higher which also helps in taming the recoil some. 

There are lots of ways/techniques to help tame the recoil.  Attending a good shooting school is a good way to get some ideas and learn some ways that work. 

dont get your hand to high, otherwise the slide will bite youBig Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 15:44
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

One other thing is how high you ride your hands on the grip.  I prefer to have my hands and high as they can possibly go.  Sometimes the web of my hand is actually spilling over the top of the beaver tail.  Some guns allow you to get higher than others based on the height of the slide over the grip.  I stack my thumbs as well so that would put my support hand higher which also helps in taming the recoil some. 

There are lots of ways/techniques to help tame the recoil.  Attending a good shooting school is a good way to get some ideas and learn some ways that work. 

dont get your hand to high, otherwise the slide will bite youBig Grin


Thus the "can possibly go".  Wink  Never been bit by a slide, but I have had that happen with the hammer on a high power.  It hurts a little. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 15:58
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ive heard of people getting bit by the slide, i hear that stings bad!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 16:02
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I have seen it.  The guy had two big cuts where the slide rails hit the web of his hand.  Really tore him up.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 16:07
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thats what happens to those fellars with donkey choking hands and a compact pistolLaugh
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 16:13
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Its not pretty when it happens I will say that much saw it happen to a buddy and he ended up getting infection really bad because of the oil and powder burn that got into the cut

Edited by SVT_Tactical - December/21/2010 at 16:13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 16:15
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that kinda stuff gives me the willy'sShocked
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 17:30
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

Glocks because they're basically all plastic weigh considerably less than just about anything else out there and they tend to be the snappiest. Less weight to hold the force of the shot down. And a lot is personal preference as well.



That is an interesting/different observation.  I have had 8 different XDs/XDms and all of them except the 9mm had snappier recoil than the 3 Glock 23s that my dad and I have/had.  The larger Glocks like the 22 and 35 have even less snappy recoil.  That is one thing I have always like better about the Glock 23 vs the XDm .40 is the less snappy recoil.  I am sure it has to do with the more extreme angle of the grip.  Course I shoot the weaver stance with the push pull technique so that might make a big difference vs another type.


In my writeup on my Xdm 40 3.8 i put my observations between my pistol and my dads generation 4 g23. My dad and i both noticed a distinct difference in recoil with his G23 being snappier. I was pretty sure it would go that route when we took turns using each others pistols based on data i had on each pistol. The website that i have recoil data on says the G23 has about 2.5 more ft/lbs of recoil than the Xdm 40 in 3.8 inch length. When you factor that they are using just the gun itself for data entry you really are left with mostly overall weight of the pistol and to lesser degree spring setup and design. There is a solid 8 oz difference fully loaded. That's a decent amount. Granted you do use a Weaver stance and i think that has to be factored in, where as i use a power stance below: I really like the aggressive nature of this stance for pistol shooting as i used to use weaver early on. I feel like im driving the gun and not the other way around. But again, to each their own. I fault nobody for using their own techniques. I say whatever feels most comfortable. Interesting though, thanks for the insight on your experiences! Excellent




Edited by shooter07 - December/21/2010 at 17:35
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Grip geometry and the manner in which it positions your hand while shooting has a LOT to do with your perception of recoil. 
 
As does balance and the location of the pistol's center of gravity.


This is about as spot on as you can be with pistol shooting. Good thoughts Ted!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 17:39
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The thing I like about the weaver stance is it transitions to my long guns perfectly.  I shoot everything the exact same.  I guess I shoot more of a modified weaver technically.  But like you said whatever works. 

The different observations are interesting though.  Even my wife would rather shoot the glock 23 than the XDm .40.  She actually hates it because of how snappy it is for her.  I have probably got 30,000+ rounds down range with the XD series and 10,000+ with the Glock 23 and have always thought what I stated.  So it must be related to the stance and technique.   

Where is Dale?  He will be able to tell us what is going on. 


Edited by supertool73 - December/21/2010 at 17:40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 17:43
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Thanks again for bringing it up! I enjoy hearing differences like that.

Not sure if you've ever checked it out, but the website i used for data is:

http://www.genitron.com/HandgunDB/DB-Stats-Ranks.asp

You can filter any type of round, pistol/revolver combination and it also brings up categories like conceal ability, power factor, and recoil factor. Pretty neat site.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 17:49
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That is a cool site.  Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 19:28
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Yeah Ive heard of slide bite but never seen it. I let a friend of mine shoot the XD once and he had his thumb directly behind the slide when he fired... It didnt break his thumb and he didnt drop the gun but I felt bad for not explaining that the top of the gun was going to slam back. I thought everybody knew that but his closest thing to live fire was video games... Almost as scary as my first experience with da/sa triggers. First round fired was da and I missed the target so I walked closer, while walking I still had my finger in the trigger gaurd muzzle towards the ground, BOOOM, hole in the dirt 5inches from my right foot. Not a mistake I will ever make again. Nobody else even noticed but I was awfully red cheeked.
Now back to recoil... Hows the Glock 30 feel under recoil?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2010 at 22:11
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

The M&P recoil stung my trigger finger like a mother.  Not sure why, but that trigger really got me.
 
I remember now that you had told me that when I bought my M&P.  I didn't have that experience with the gun and after all these months I had forgotten that you had said that. 
 
 
I did shoot a fella's S&W Sigma last year ....a 9mm.  Had a 17 shot clip.  I didn't think that darn thing was ever gonna get "finished" because it was jumping and snapping upwards all over the place!  I didn't like it.  Also, the Sigma stovepiped and had about four failures to feed during maybe 200 rounds that day!!!  I liked my M&P infinitely better.   
 
 


Edited by Ed Connelly - December/27/2010 at 22:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2010 at 10:49
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Oh My God - lets just run down to mamby pamby land and ..............
 
Felt recoil is reduced by the weight of the firearm.
Obviously a prime cantidate to shoot my 45-70 encore pistol then there would be a lot less wining about the feel of the recoil of these.  When you take a service type cartirdge like 45acp and put it in a lightweight compact pistol you are going to experience more recoild and often reduced accuracy.  When you take a 45acp and put it in a heavy stainless Sig P220 or all steel govt model 1911 the recoil will feel significantly reduced and the time it takes to get back on target is reduced.   You have a trade off - (carry it a lot / shoot it a little)  pistols that are light compact and carry easily or a full size pistol like a 1911 Govt model or the Sig P220 stainless which is quit heavy but better for accurate shooting. The full size Glock 21 SF is a compromise lots of bullets service lenth barrel better accuracy less recoil than a G30.   By the way if you cant get the job done with the first 8 rounds out of a 1911 carry an extra magazine and learn to change magazines 10 to 13 bullets wont serve you any purpose besides making the grip wider and less comfortable.
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