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Rear Focus Scope - Butler Creek Flip Ups

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 19:02
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I've got a rear focus scope.
I bought some butler creek flip ups, but I can't move the focus all the way around due to the cap hitting the back of the rifle...
Am I missing something?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 19:48
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Rear focus scope????  Which exact scope do you have?

If you are referring to the eyepiece focus, you are not supposed to be messing with it once it is adjusted for your eyes.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 19:49
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You're not missing anything. I adjust my focus for my most common usage and then mount the cover straight up there. I usually have enough focus range either way.
I have an airgun scope that focuses well outside this range and I took the cover off.
I found that with my big game rifles I usually carry them muzzle somewhat up or vertically slung. I can get by without the ocular cover in most cases if need be.
There are the Scopecoat or Bikini covers also. These offer a good alternative but are not as fast as flip ups.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 19:49
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You answered my question :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 19:53
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Doesn't a first focal plane scope require adjustment of the eyepiece focus as you change magnification??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 20:30
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My FFP scopes don't require re-focusing when changing magnifications. Most changes with my rifle scopes are because I switched to progressive lenses and I had a learning curve with the sweet spot for shooting. I cannot avoid this because I am always looking at maps or my GPS when afield. I wear them all the time.
I have pretty much settled into a "zone" with focus on all my rifles now.
I have recently begun shooting pests at extremely short range, 3-4 yards, and I have to re-focus no matter what.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 21:24
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

My FFP scopes don't require re-focusing when changing magnifications.
<snip>
 
That's strange because my Kahles CL requires constant re-focusing as I change magnification.  I wonder if something is wrong?  This is the only FFP scope that I have ever owned.
 
 Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 21:25
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Kahles CL is not an FFP scope.

Are you sure it is not a Kahles C?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 21:31
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 I don't think that Kahles makes the multizero in the C series do they?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2008 at 22:22
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Originally posted by dougedwards dougedwards wrote:

 I don't think that Kahles makes the multizero in the C series do they?


I do not think so.  Is it a 30mm tube or a 1"?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 00:08
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 I went and looked at the box and it is a CL model.  Then went to the Kahles website and you are right ILya.....it isn't a FFP scope at all.   I got that information from Legacy Sports when I called them concerning the focusing of the scope.  This scope does indeed go quickly out of focus when changing magnification.  It is a 3-9x42 Multizero and the explaination that I received over the phone from Legacy is that in a scope where the reticle is in the first focal plane that the eyepiece needs to be adjusted when changing magnification range because the reticle is being magnified along with the object..... not making much sense to me but since I had no experience at all with FFP scopes I accepted their explaination for my delima.
 
Legacy did inform me that the mulitizero scopes were sold before they took over from Swarovski Optical and that all they could do for me is send my scope to Austria for Kahles to take a look at it if I was still dissatisfied.  This would be at my expense of course.  Emmett at Legacy also informed me that since I bought a display model (with all new warranty paperwork) I may not have any warranty whatsoever since Kahles' warranty only applies to the original owner and that there would be descrepency over whether the scope was originally owned by me or the store ( as ridiculous as that sounds).
 
Hidoa......I sure am glad that you posted your question as I have the same problem with the the flip ups when constantly adjusting the eyepiece.  No telling how long I would have gone thinking that these FFP scopes sure do stink!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 01:03
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That is very interesting since my 3-9x42 Multizero scope was just fixed by Kahles at no charge to me other than shipping.  It was purchased from SWFA's Samplelist and I was not the original owner of the scope.  In other words, what you were told is a bunch of crap.  Interestingly, the person I talked to at Legacy was also Emmett.

CL is not an FFP scope.  It is SFP.  Whether it is FFP or SFP, it should not go out of focus when you change magnification.  That is a pile of BS.

I think Kahles is going to be rapidly moving off of my recommendations list, unless Legacy Sports gets their stuff together.

If I were you I would try to contact Kahles in Austria directly and see what they tell you.  Politely explain the situation and if they wonder how many potential sales they will lose, have them check out this forum.

I will be more than happy to elaborate on how many people come here for their optics questions and how many applications Kahle WILL NOT BE RECOMMENDED FOR.

ILya
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Originally posted by dougedwards dougedwards wrote:

 
 
Legacy did inform me that the mulitizero scopes were sold before they took over from Swarovski Optical and that all they could do for me is send my scope to Austria for Kahles to take a look at it if I was still dissatisfied.  This would be at my expense of course.  Emmett at Legacy also informed me that since I bought a display model (with all new warranty paperwork) I may not have any warranty whatsoever since Kahles' warranty only applies to the original owner and that there would be descrepency over whether the scope was originally owned by me or the store ( as ridiculous as that sounds).
 
 
 
 
 
ouch. That's not what one wants to hear after dropping several c-notes on a scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 01:42
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 Lousey warranty huh ?  Screw Kahles .....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2008 at 07:24
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Originally posted by mercenary1947 mercenary1947 wrote:

 Lousey warranty huh ?  Screw Kahles .....
 
 I am not ready to say "screw Kahles" just yet.  I will call today and keep the forum informed.......Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 11:34
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 I am sending my Kahles scope in to Legacy today and they will forward it to Austria to be repaired if them deem that the focus problem is indeed a warranty issue.  Will keep forum informed of outcome.
 
 Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2008 at 22:02
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I shipped my Kahles CL 3-9x42 multizero to Legacy Sports via Fedex and it was received and signed for on Aug. 1, 2008.  Based on what I have read on this forum I should NOT have to adjust the eyepiece everytime I change magnification to achieve a clear sight picture.  So far Legacy has not responded to emails to confirm that they have in fact received the scope.  But here is the response I got from Legacy concerning the focus problem:
 
Hey Stephen,
This is th response I got form the factory, I hope it helps.

Emmit Causey
Customer Sales
4750 Longley Ln. Suite 208
Reno, NV 89502
775-828-0555 ext.10
www.legacysports.com
"Nulli Secundus"

-----Original Message-----
From: Hermann H. Kloetzer
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:14 PM
To: EMMIT CAUSEY
Subject: Re: Kahles parallax

Hi Emmit,

If the customer wants to have a parallax free setting of his scope, he
first
needs to determine the distance he is going to shoot at. Then he needs
to
set the left turret to that particular distance (30yds.-Infinity). Once
that
is done he needs to focus the scope using the ocular ring (eyepiece of
the
scope, or very rear turning ring of the scope)). This will give him a
clear
and crisp sight picture. He may also set the side focus at 100 yds. and
leave it there and only use the ocular adjustment ring as his focus
tool.
Just setting the parallax free distance will not focus the scope.

Hope this helps.

Nice weekend - and let me know if this helped.

Hermann

----- Original Message -----
From: "EMMIT CAUSEY" <ECausey@legacysports.com>
To: "Hermann H. Kloetzer"
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:38 PM
Subject: FW: Kahles parallax


Herman,
Do you have any ideas that may be helpful to this gentleman?  He
is wondering if there is a step in the instructions he is missing or is
he going to need to send it in for repairs.  Please advise.  Thank you.

Emmit Causey
Customer Sales
4750 Longley Ln. Suite 208
Reno, NV 89502
775-828-0555 ext.10
www.legacysports.com
"Nulli Secundus"
-----Original Message-----
From: edwards3618@verizon.net [mailto:edwards3618@verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 12:44 PM
To: EMMIT CAUSEY
Subject: Kahles parallax

 Emmett....we spoke today on the phone concerning my Kahles 3-9x42
Multizero scope that was a store display.  When turning the parallax all
the way down to 30 it will give a clear picture only on objects 50 yards
or closer then it gets fuzzy.  When I try to adjust the setting out to
50 or 100 yards or more it only gets worse.

 I am assuming from our conversation that you really can't tell me much
other than to send the scope to Austria. I have all the original
paperwork on the scope and need you to tell me what to do from here.

 Thanks
 Stephen

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2008 at 23:36
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I am now thoroughly confused about what the actual problem with the scope is.

Can you start in the beginning and explain what is wrong with the scope?

Thanks.
ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2008 at 23:51
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I am now thoroughly confused about what the actual problem with the scope is.

Can you start in the beginning and explain what is wrong with the scope?

Thanks.
ILya
 
 Sorry.....it has been a while since I first posted my problems with this scope.  But I can tell you that my particular scope MUST focus exactly the way this man describes it.  The side parallax adjustment MUST be set to 30 yds at all magnifications to get a clear picture and only then by adjusting the ocular eyepiece as the magnification changes.  If you read the response from the guy at Legacy he maintains that the scope must be focused with the eyepiece and not the side adjustment.  This is exactly what I have found to be true with this scope.
 
 For example.......at 3x I set the parallax to 30yds and focus on something 30 yds away I have a perfect sight picture after I adjust the ocular eyepiece to the crosshairs.  At that point everything is great.  As I begin to focus on objects further away I begin to have problems that the left side adjustment can't fix but can be rectified by the ocular adjustment.   In addition, as I change up in magnifcation I am again forced to adjust the ocular as the side adjustment is of no use for this.  Even when continuing to focus on objects at any particular distance the changing of magnification requires that I again make another ocular adjustment. 
 
 You see....what is bothering me is that this fellow from Legacy seems to confirm that he understands my exact problem and is confirming that the scope is set up to operate in such a manner. 
 
Hope this helps to explain the problems that I have with this scope.  With no other scope that I own do I have to adjust the ocular eyepiece after it is adjusted to focus on the crosshairs.  The title of this thread got me to thinking about it as ocular scope covers aren't an option if you have to constantly spin the ocular eyepiece to focus.
 
 Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 00:19
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Let's hope this is just a communication error.  Don't take it personally, but since your e-mail has confused the heck out of me, it may have confused the people at Legacy and Kahles (although they are saying something thoroughly bizarre).

You should not have to adjust the ocular when you change magnification.  One thing that does worry me a little is that you keep on talking about objects at 30 yards.  A lot of typical centerfire scopes have a hard time focusing on objects that are pretty close when set to high magnification.  30 yards is not all that close, but it is still possible that your scope is having a hard time with that.

I would do the following: 

-focus the reticle via rear ocular adjustment while looking at the sky.  Make sure you rest your eye frequently through the process. Do this at the highest magnification.
-find several objects that are pretty far away (let's say 100 yards and further) and check if you can focus the scope image (not the reticle) on them via the side-parallax knob (still at the highest magnification).  You should be able to bring the objects into focus via the side-focus knob ONLY.  Once you bring your target into focus, both the object you are looking at and the reticle should look very sharp.  Make sure you DO NOT adjust the ocular at this stage.

If you can not bring the objects 100 yards and further into focus via the side focus knob, you need to send the scope in.

Moving right along.  If everything goes smoothly during the exercise above, try to change the magnification while looking at one of those distant objects.  It is possible for the object to go slightly out of of focus when you change magnification.  You should be able to bring it back into focus using the side-focus knob (still do not touch the ocular adjustment and look at distant objects only).

Assuming everything works out there, experiment with some objects that are a bit closer.  You should be able to bring them into focus using the side-focus only.  It is possible that objects that are very close you can only focus on when at a lower magnification.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 00:29
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 thanks Ilya.........I wish I hadn't mentioned 30 yards at all because it doesn't matter which distance I am focusing. The only remedy to bring an object into clear focus at any distance is to adjust the ocular.  When changing magnification focusing on a particular object at say...100 yards....I must adjust the ocular.  The side adjustment won't do anything to adjust focus.   When optically focusing on a crisp object at 50 yards I must again re-focus the ocular as I begin to focus on object further away.  The side adjustment MUST stay at 30 yards (paralax)  to allow crisp focus at any distance or magnification and then only is brought into focus using the ocular ajustment. 
 
 <Don't take it personally, but since your e-mail has confused the heck out of me, it may have confused the people at Legacy and Kahles (although they are saying something thoroughly bizarre).>  I actually don't think that the guy at Kahles was confused at all by my question as he seem to exactly understand how the scope is to be focused.  If I do exactly what he says to do then I have no problems except for having to constantly adjusting the ocular.  This guy clearly states that the focusing is done with the ocular adjustment and not the side parallax adjustment.  When I read his reply to my problem I just thought for sure that this must be how this particular scope operates and that I would just have to live with it.
Again what bothers me is that it seems this fellow is stating that ALL focusing is done with the ocular which is exactly what I am experiencing.   I have already sent my scope to Legacy and will report on it's progress as you have done with the one that you shipped to Austria.  Hope my experience turns out like yours even if I have to wait 2 months to get it back.
 
 Doug


Edited by dougedwards - August/07/2008 at 00:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 00:50
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One last question:

How did you get the reticle into focus in the first place?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 01:05
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

One last question:

How did you get the reticle into focus in the first place?
 
 There was only one way to get the reticle into focus and that was to look at the sky and turn the ocular adjustment until the reticle was crisp.   I then began to focus on close objects  at 3x as 30-50 yards is frequently my hunting range in the thickness of Virginia's forests.   If I had the parallax set at 30 yards I had no problem until I began to focus on objects further away.  As I did this I, of course, thought that the parallax needed to be adjusted to the distance but as I increased the parallax to the distance matters got worse. 
 
 You do ask a good question however concerning the reticle as this guy from Kahles seems to ignore the fact that everytime you have to adjust the ocular to focus on the object that you in turn can be adjusting the reticle out of focus.   I just knew I should have stuck with my good ole Sightrons.  Anything ever goes wrong with them in the least and they just send you a new one the next day..........Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 01:13
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It sounds like you were doing it correctly and the scope is screwed up.  Most likely the gearing of the side-focus adjustment is in need of repair.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 01:39
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

It sounds like you were doing it correctly and the scope is screwed up.  Most likely the gearing of the side-focus adjustment is in need of repair.

ILya
 
 Yes I agree but doesn't it seem odd that someone who is supposed to be knowledgable about their optical product would explain that the focusing can be done by setting the parallax to 100 yards and then focusing the scope on the object with the eyepiece??  At all distances and magnifications?? Doesn't he give any thought at all to what that will do to the focus of the reticle.  Geeeesh..........it wouldnt' matter how confused the guy might have been with my question.......that is an outlandish recommendation don't you think?
 
 Doug
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