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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2006 at 08:54
scooter65 View Drop Down
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Well, I've researched, read, listened and read some more until I'm thoroughly confused but closer to a decision.  There is a ton of knowledge and experience floating around on this board.  There is no substitute for knowledge gained from the field when it comes to product recommendations.  So here is my dilemma.  I'm scoping a general all around varmint rifle, nothing too fancy a .204.  Would like to use it for all sorts of varminting etc.....  Based on what I've learned over the past year (I know, i've had the gun that long without a scope, I can hear the moans out there),  I've settled on a 4x16x50 with mil-dot.  I've already read all the goods and bads of all the scope powers, reticles etc.... and I've decided this fits me the best.  I would prefer a side focus but I am not hard set on that.  The question I have come up with is that in all of everybodies experiences which of the following has the better glass.  Now I know I will get a lecture on shooters personal preference and that I should look thru them myself (which I have).  But I'm fishing for opinions and Yes like most of us, I have a budget of up to around 500.00.  I can fudge a few dollars that the wife doesn't know about, but not too much without her alarm going off.

 

Nikon Monarch

Bushnell 4200

Burris Signature

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2006 at 14:15
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Scooter,

Among your choices above, NONE of those 3 scope families are offered in a 4-16X50 with mil-dot variation.  Magnification-wise, the closest Monarch would be either a 4-12X40 or 5.5-16X44 and neither is available with mil-dot.  Of the mil-dot Monarchs, you have a choice of either 3.5-10X50 or 6.5-20X44 and the latter exceeds your $500 limit by about $75, not counting tax and/or shipping costs.  None of the 1" Monarchs are available with the side focus you prefer.  The Bushnell 4200 is available in 4-16X50, but not with mil-dot.  The 4200 6-24X40 is available in mil-dot, plus SF, all for right at your $500 limit, but based on your statements, you may be wanting lower magnification on the low end.  Of the Burris Signature Selects, there are no 50mm objectives.  They are offered in a 4-16X44 config with their "Ballistic Mil-dot," as well as 6-24X44 and 8-32X44 versions with the same reticle.  The S.S. 4-16X44 BMD is priced within your stated budget; the other two are slightly above your budget, and none have SF.

 

Of those, HANDS DOWN, I'd go with the Bushnell 4200 6-24X40 mil-dot w/ SF if you can live with the extra magnification on the low end and the 40mm objective.  IMO, its other great attributes more than make up for the loss of FOV on the low side.  In addition, at $489.00 from SWFA, this is one of the very best, if not THE best value in varmint scopes going.  Optics are outstanding -- probably on par with the others, if not slightly better, and for less cost.  I personally like SF on a high-mag varmint scope so much that I won't buy one without it.  The primary type varmint shooting I do is for prairie dogs, where I'm constantly and drastically changing shot distances.  For this type shooting, SF is way more convenient than A/O.  I realize you said SF is not a must-have, but I suspect from your comment that you feel as I do that it's a very nice feature to have, regardless of the type varminting you'll do.  I just think this scope is an incredible value for what you get.  Any other high-quality SF model varmint scope with mil-dot will cost way more than $500 and might not be any better optically than the 4200.

 

If you must have exactly 4-16X magnification range, magnification is more important to you than SF, and you're o.k. with the slightly smaller obj dia, I'd go with the Burris SS 4-16X44 BMD, which technically comes closest to what you're looking for among the 3 lines mentioned.

 

As for which of the 3 is best from a purely optical standpoint, they're all very close, and you'd probably be pleased with any of them, but personally, I'd give the slight edge to the 4200, which makes its price all the more remarkable.  Opinions will vary on that point, and a lot depends on the individual models you're comparing.

 

Good luck!



Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2006 at 15:58
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My pick would be the 4200 6X24. I believe that you would be very happy with it. I personally have it mounted on a Rem 700 Sendero 22-250 for varmit hunting (mostly PD's) and am completely satisfied. My 2 cents
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2006 at 18:23
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Thanks for the advice. yes, I did realize when I wrote my question that getting ballistic mil-dot was not going to happen in those power ranges.  I did find it in the Burriss Black Diamond with the side focus but the 6X24X50.  Of course the price goes up to 700.00 and the rings will cost much more since it is 30mm.  I had looked through several 40mm verses 50mm and I liked the increase in the exit pupil and the light gathering that it gained.  Since I preferred not to mess with the dials when hunting, the ballistic mildot seemed the best choice.  Can't seem to get exactly what I want in the price range.  I do favor those 4200s.  I know others with them and they swear by them.  I'm not sure I'm any closer to a decision yet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2006 at 07:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2006 at 07:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2006 at 08:16
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Hey Cheap Trick, thanks for the post.  I did see that model, but no SF on it.  I was also concerned if the ballistic circles would obscure the view of a PD??  Anybody have an opinion on that?  Let me also clarify that I was looking towards the 4x16 power range because of many opinions on this board that state you really don't need the 20x + power.  That most cases you are over scoped and won't use the power therefore a waste of money.  Any opinions on that??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2006 at 08:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2006 at 08:57
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i will give my opinion on scopes that may not help but i dont recommend any scope for shooting any critter that has a power higher than 4x at the lowest setting, 6 power is kinda scary at close range for coyote at least not such a big deal for p dogs and such but i would keep that in mind. and i have heard that the bdc can cover a p dog at greater distances, but i cannot confirm it myself because i heard second hand!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2006 at 10:30
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I just got the Monarch 6.5-20x44mm w/ lit Mil Dot reticle.

 

I frankly just bought it because it was a KILLER good buy (Thanks SWFA) and I'll probably only use it for target shooting.

I'm an advocate of lower magnification models. I just threw the 6.5-20 out there for your information.

 

 

Interestingly, I have only used it at 16x on my .308.

Anything more than that, tends to get "hinky" with head position. It's a little fickle in that regard over 16x.  

 

pyro's post has merit too. I'm not an avid varmint shooter, so his post is worthy of your consideration. 

 

The BDC reticle is fairly new, but SWFA had it out trying it and seemed to like it.

I meant to provide that review and forgot.

They were nailing shaving cream cans at will @ 200 yards, so the BDC may or may not obstruct a PD or small varmint that you would be shooting.

 

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4028&KW=Ni kon+BDC

 

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/6546/nikon_4-12x40_monar ch_ucc_riflescope.htm

This is the 4-12 model with the BDC.

 

What say you, Sir??

 

Oh, I don't like SF on my scopes.

I'm a lefty and like to adjust parallax with my "off" hand and leave my trigger finger by the trigger, where it belongs.

 

 

 

 



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2007 at 09:25
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Well Cheaptrick, I must admit, I like that Nikon and it comes in the 16.5 with BDC... Still would like to hear if anybody has had experience with it on PD's.  Also what r u your thoughts on the Black Diamond I mentioned above. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2007 at 11:26
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Do a search under "Black Diamond" and see what the "hive" has to say about it. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2007 at 17:51
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I Think we are both looking for this scope at  $ 500

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/IOR318X42TILLMP8M/ior_3- 18x42_tactical_35mm_rifle_scope.htm

 

Only one small problem it has everything I want except the price is a little more , that is the story of life

it always works that way

 

Duce 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 14:27
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

 

Oh, I don't like SF on my scopes.

I'm a lefty and like to adjust parallax with my "off" hand and leave my trigger finger by the trigger, where it belongs.

 

 

Good point.  I can definitely see where that would be a problem if you're left-handed.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 14:44
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Rifle Dude:

We like to refer to ourselves as "Special Shooters"..........



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 15:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 16:03
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Does anyone make a scope with the SF  on the right? may be a real opening for a little custom work with Super Sniper and their viariable scopes.

 

 

Duce

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I am for gun control ! that why I never drink more than two cups of coffie before shooting 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 16:06
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[QUOTE=Duce]

Does anyone make a scope with the SF  on the right? may be a real opening for a little custom work with Super Sniper and their viariable scopes.

 

 

Duce

 

 

 

 

Never seen a side focus on the right. Most left handers

 

 prefer a rear focus scope such as the Super Sniper.

 

 

 

 



Edited by SVD666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 16:14
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Lefties prefer either rear focus or an AO.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2007 at 19:45
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I am a lefty and I like the side focus on the left. I work the bolt on the left and it is just natural to focus on the left. The front focus is a reach on a varmint scope. I have 2 leup. 4.5X14 one 40mm and the other 50mm with Varmint rec. I prefer the Burris BPLX over the leop. on my .223. Burris gives very easy tables and it is easier and quicker to estimate the between shots.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2007 at 23:00
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3_tens:

Good to have more lefties around here.

 

Welcome to The OT!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2007 at 18:37
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Hey, Cheap, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that, based on your avatar, you were probably somewhat pleased by the "game" last night, if you can call it that.

 

Am I in anywhere in the ballpark with that assumption?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2007 at 18:53
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Hey, Cheap, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that, based on your avatar, you were probably somewhat pleased by the "game" last night, if you can call it that.

 

Am I in anywhere in the ballpark with that assumption?

 

Affirmative!!

This years championship was even sweeter than the last one. To me any way.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 00:48
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Dont know how much $ you have to spend but Schmidt & Bender makes a 4-16 varmint with built in trajectory compensated dots as well as windage hold off dots that is set up for the 22-250 out to 500 yards. I have one and it is a really fine glass.Probably close to a 204 as well. It is a fantastic scope although probably not 300% better than the Monarch which is about the cost difference.
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