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.Re Barreling Model 70

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 19:18
SamC View Drop Down
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Since I have a new long range rifle (300 WSM) I'm thinking of re barreling my 7 mm Winchester Classic Model 70 into a big bore. How big can I go with a 7mm action? I know I can re chamber it up to 338 Win Mag but how big can I go without chopping the heck out of it? Is 375 H&H chambering too long for this action, any suggestions?
Thanks,
Sam
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 19:55
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What about 35 whelen or 9.3x62?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 20:46
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35 Whelen and 9.3 X 62 would require a new bolt. The mag box is long enough for a 375 H&H if you remove the filler. Just buy the correct follower. The factory H&H's had the rear bridge opened up about 0.200 inch longer to ease loading. I have seen many conversions with the bridge left as is. Buy the follower and any 0.532 case head magnum is pretty easy. Minor tune up on the feed rails and you are set on the action.

416 Rem, 458 Lott, 470 Capstick

375 RUM or 375 Weatherby if you lean toward smaller stuff.

If you don't want to remove the filler try 358 Norma Mag, 375 Ruger, 416 Ruger, 375 Taylor, 416 Taylor, 458 Win Mag.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 20:51
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Originally posted by GLZ GLZ wrote:

35 Whelen and 9.3 X 62 would require a new bolt. The mag box is long enough for a 375 H&H if you remove the filler. Just buy the correct follower. The factory H&H's had the rear bridge opened up about 0.200 inch longer to ease loading. I have seen many conversions with the bridge left as is. Buy the follower and any 0.532 case head magnum is pretty easy. Minor tune up on the feed rails and you are set on the action.

416 Rem, 458 Lott, 470 Capstick

375 RUM or 375 Weatherby if you lean toward smaller stuff.

If you don't want to remove the filler try 358 Norma Mag, 375 Ruger, 416 Ruger, 375 Taylor, 416 Taylor, 458 Win Mag.

 

 

 
What about the bolt stop?  Will that need to be set back for H&H? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 21:57
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

Originally posted by GLZ GLZ wrote:

35 Whelen and 9.3 X 62 would require a new bolt. The mag box is long enough for a 375 H&H if you remove the filler. Just buy the correct follower. The factory H&H's had the rear bridge opened up about 0.200 inch longer to ease loading. I have seen many conversions with the bridge left as is. Buy the follower and any 0.532 case head magnum is pretty easy. Minor tune up on the feed rails and you are set on the action.

416 Rem, 458 Lott, 470 Capstick

375 RUM or 375 Weatherby if you lean toward smaller stuff.

If you don't want to remove the filler try 358 Norma Mag, 375 Ruger, 416 Ruger, 375 Taylor, 416 Taylor, 458 Win Mag.

 

 

  Will that need to be set back for H&H? 
What about the bolt stop?
nothing, if you can do a wby case the h&h will fit also i think 
 


Edited by pyro6999 - November/25/2008 at 06:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 00:45
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Based on the 7mm Remy mag`s cartridge dimensions, unless I`m mistaken, either going to the 375 Ruger or the 416 Ruger would require the least in modifications?  
 
If you want a cartridge for the longer range big game, any N/A big game as well as all dangerous game, its hard to beat a 375 as an all around cartridge.
 
The 416 will give you the better stopping power for the dangerous African stuff and with the right bullet be suitable for longer plains work. It`s not quite the flat shooter that the .375 is though.
 
I assume your barrel is a 24 or maybe a 26 incher?
 
If you go with a 375, look at the ever growing in popularity 375 Ruger. It holds more powder than the H&H case and given the same barrel length, it does out perform the H&H. My 20" 375 Ruger Alaskan with reloads, does duplicate and can even exceed by a small margin 24" H&H ballistics.
 
A 375 Ruger with a longer 24" or 26" barrel?WOW  Oh Yea Baby  That`ll be about on par with the 375 Wby and with less recoil too!..............That`ll get it done!
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 07:05
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

Originally posted by GLZ GLZ wrote:

35 Whelen and 9.3 X 62 would require a new bolt. The mag box is long enough for a 375 H&H if you remove the filler. Just buy the correct follower. The factory H&H's had the rear bridge opened up about 0.200 inch longer to ease loading. I have seen many conversions with the bridge left as is. Buy the follower and any 0.532 case head magnum is pretty easy. Minor tune up on the feed rails and you are set on the action.

416 Rem, 458 Lott, 470 Capstick

375 RUM or 375 Weatherby if you lean toward smaller stuff.

If you don't want to remove the filler try 358 Norma Mag, 375 Ruger, 416 Ruger, 375 Taylor, 416 Taylor, 458 Win Mag.

 

 

  Will that need to be set back for H&H? 
What about the bolt stop?
nothing, if you can do a wby case the h&h will fit also i think 
 
 
Ed,  I gotta proof read. Should have included replace/shorten the bolt stop and ejector.( The classic should be a CRF)
the 416, 458, 470, 375 RUM, 375 Wby are all the same nominal length. The RUM will probably need the most feeding work due to the case diameter.
It's not a big job. If you have some one that can fit a barrel he should be able to do the action mods.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 07:40
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Did it again, same nominal length as the H&H.
 
The RUM and possibly the Rugers will  lose 1 round down due to the increased case diameter. The 7 MM  and 300 RUM's had a modified (wider) mag box. If you find a RUM box do a 404 Jeffery!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 08:50
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GLZ, Yes the Winchester Model 70 Classic is a CRF. So, are you guys saying that my 7mm action is long enough and the bolt face is adequate to convert it to 375 H&H?

Sam
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 20:18
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Yes, 375 H&H is not a problem on a LA M-70.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 20:29
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Originally posted by SamC SamC wrote:

GLZ, Yes the Winchester Model 70 Classic is a CRF. So, are you guys saying that my 7mm action is long enough and the bolt face is adequate to convert it to 375 H&H?

Sam
 
yes sir, all of the belted magnums except the 6.5rem and .350 rem are all based off the .375h&h case, even the wby stuff is based of the .375 case some have been trimmed and the shoulder angles changed, like the .257 270 and 7mm wbys and the .338 win and 300 win are different lengths etc. so your good to go
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 20:30
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458 Lott


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 20:42
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nice thing about the lott is that you can also fire .458win out of it to save on your shoulder and wallet for that matter,
i will lead you in an odd direction, work we me here sam how about the .340weatherby mag?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 21:53
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

458 Lott


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2008 at 12:13
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Thanks everybody for the suggestions, I've really learned a lot here. I'm looking for an all around big game cartridge to use from Alaska to Africa. I'm not sure I will ever make it to Africa but the recent political election dictates that I build something for my son that he may not be able to buy in the future. I'm thinking a 375 H&H because it is very versatile and ammo might be a bit easier to acquire down the road. Do you guys agree with my line of thinking?
Sam


Edited by SamC - November/26/2008 at 12:14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2008 at 12:38
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I'll give you a vote for the .375 H&H. It is a great all around big game caliber. It hits hard and shoots reasonably flat. Mine is a Remington 700 and it is easy to carry and the recoil isn't too bad.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2008 at 13:47
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You need to check your mag length and the total length of your ejection port.  The 375 H & H is .350" longer in case length and then you have the added length of the seated bullet.  Of course you can have your gunsmith rechamber so that you can seat the bullet all the way in to the ogive but it would be best to check all that before you order a barrel.
 
I recently rebarreled a 338 win mag (same case length as the 7 mag) into a 338 RUM.  Before making all the decisions I got a bag of 338RUM cases and seated some bullets to check mag length and the ejection port opening before making any mistakes.
 
The 338 RUM is an option for you even though the case head is .002" larger.  Mine was a controlled round feed also and it picks the larger case head up just fine.  The mag in mine had plenty of room even though the RUM case was .260" longer, I could seat the bullets without problem even though they are shorter than OAL's recommended in the manuals.
 
The 375 bullets will be longer and there could be an issue with using too much of your case capacity with deep seated bullets.  A lot needs to be worked out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2008 at 14:35
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Sam your thinking is logical to me. 375 H&H is a classic round quite capable of taking anything Alaska has to offer and almost everything you will in Africa.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2008 at 19:24
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I also like the idea of the Ruger 375 but worry about ammo availability.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2008 at 20:13
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Originally posted by SamC SamC wrote:

I also like the idea of the Ruger 375 but worry about ammo availability.
.......................Everytime a new cartridge comes out, there are always worries about ammo availablity. But then again, if a cartridge wasn`t popular, or not growing in popularity quickly, then there may be a worry....Not so with this cartridge!
 
I cannot speak for Africa, but here in So. Cal, 375 Ruger ammo literally is all over the place. I reload for mine. Dies and shellholders are available. Brass is plentiful and plenty of reloading data is available. Powders, bullets, primers! No problems there!
 
When I go to Africa, I`ll have my reloads. I have watched on TV quite a few trips to Africa with Hornady, Boddington, and many others who have used the 375 Ruger. Apparently, they had no ammo availabilty problems nor did anyone else. 
 
I would call Hornady directly and ask if their 375 Ruger ammo is being marketed in Africa. If not, take reloads!
 
I sure wouldn`t base my decision against a cartridge only on whether or not factory ammo is available in Africa.
 
I thought about the H&H too, but I`m not into classic nostalgia. You may be. I look at the cartridge efficiency; case volume to bore to velocity ratio, the performance and more importantly in my case, the rifles chambered in this round. You already have the rifle.
 
Other than its 95 year senority advantage, its nostalgia and more worldwide ammo availability (for now), the H&H offers nothing over the 375 Ruger. Certainly not in the performance dept or in the accuracy dept either. When it comes to ballistic performance, efficiency, case design, case volume to bore, the 375 Ruger is a better round.    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2008 at 08:20
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If I was going to own an African caliber that I figured to someday take to Africa, I would consider whether or not ammo might be available over there.....if the airlines lost your ammo.  Africa ain't like America.  Maybe you could find a box of 375 Ruger in Cape Town or Johannesburg.  I don't think that you would find another box outside of those two cities unless you went to Europe.  At least for a few years....and then, years from now, you might find some in a few smaller places like Bloemfontein, and, even then, ONLY in South Africa.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2008 at 08:50
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thats why i would stick with the .375 h&h myself you can buy ammo for it there like you can 30-06 over here.

 

remember murphys law when hunting abroad and then think about what you want to chamber your rifle in.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2008 at 09:20
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you bet.....I would be taking 375 H&H , 30-06, 7 Mag, 300 Win Mag....stuff that's been around for decades......the antelope aren't going to care what bullet killed them.....Bandito

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2008 at 10:16
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That's my thinking also, although the 375 Ruger looks attractive to me Murphy's Law says.........!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2008 at 12:18
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Yeah! Yeah!..........The what if this or the what if that crowd!! Airlines losing ammo or whatever!! Hell! They can lose a rifle for that matter, no matter what the caliber. If by chance airline loss does occur with rifle, ammo or both, all outfitters from my contacts, will have back up rifles and ammo for use,,,,,,,,,,,,,(aka; plan B).
 
Like I stated before, call Hornady and see if they are, or will be marketing .375 Ruger factory ammo overseas, especially to So. Africa. In Africa, hunters always have and are using cartridges other than the 375 H&H; 375 Wby, 458 Win, 378 Wby, 416 Wby, 416 Remington and others. Are they all readily available sitting on the So. African shelves as well?
 
375 H&H is marketed worldwide. Why not the Ruger round too? I`m sure there are various stages for approval from other governments for distribution. It would certainly be to Hornady`s advantage to do so.
 
While stopping power is not an issue between the two, the 375 Ruger does offer the better ballistics and efficiency. That`s why is was developed; offering higher powder case volume over the H&H, a shorter `06 action length, better efficiency, while duplicating and perhaps exceeding a very small amount 24" H&H ballistics from a handier 40 3/4" of OAL, 20" barreled rifle such as my Ruger Alaskan.
 
The rifle you`re converting has either a 24" or a 26" barrel. Assuming you don`t cut it down, the 375 Ruger will give you ballistics that no 24" 25" or 26" barreled 375 H&H on the planet can offer.
 
If your choice narrows down to either 375, you`re either going to get an early 20th century development, or an early 21st century development. The bottom line is; if you`re more into the classic, the nostalgia and emotion rather than a more modern design with better ballistic and efficiency advantages, then by all means go with the H&H. If I were into that, I`d have a 375 H&H instead of the 375 Ruger.
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