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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 06:47
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Optics GrassHopper
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Hey there,
 
I'm new around these parts. Had been scouting out some different forums and was really pleased with some of the advice i've read on these boards so far. I recently got out of the Air Force where i worked in AFSOC (specifically the AC-130) and have been shopping around for optics to go with a new weapon system.
 
I've had experience on the M16/M4 platform and shot Colts, BCM combo's, LMT, RRA, and Stags. The LMT was always #1 in my book (just my personal prefernce) of those that i had shot. I'll be purchasing the Defender Model 16 with SOPMOD (love the cheek weld) stock shortly after tax season and was wondering what type of optics you guys would reccomed.
 
Background on what id like out of my optics.
 
1. Have a $400-500 budget. Not really ready to spend 1K+ as im not looking at getting into major comp shooting (maybe down the road). Would love a 3-9x and at least a 6x magnifier. Trying to stay away from length of 10+ inches on sight (s). Looking to stay pretty compact.
 
2. Would really love to have a magnifier/red dot combo if possible. But if you don't think that would possible on $4-$500 let me know.
 
3. Will be doing mostly semi close to mid range shooting (50 yards out to a max of 500). Mainly still targets but i will be using it on hogs and other varmit.
 
4. The want for a red dot non mag sight would be for home defense although this is not my primary weapon for that manner (have more "practical" guns for that lol).
 
That's about it. I hope that can narrow down some possibilites. Again, it's nice to be a part of these forums. Seems like a top notch site. Thanks for any and all input.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 09:36
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Chief Sackscratch

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For your budget you are not going to get a "Quality" magnifier and red-dot for sure.  There are cheaper ones our there but not for that price.  I would really look at the SS 3-9 or even the 6x when it comes out. Granted the 3-9 is above the price range, keep a look on the sample list and see what pops up.  Good luck.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 10:21
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Optics GrassHopper
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If you had $500 or so and needed just a magnifier what route would you look towards?

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 10:29
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EoTech and Aimpoint mount flip-u magnifiers.

Be advised: with a magnifier, you magnify both the target size and the dot size.

This is not a good option for anything beyond 300 yards - and is not ideal for precision shot placement.

For your stated needs, I'd go with a 3-9 and the SS3-9 is the best one going.

Another option would be a good 1-4X, it'd be shorter, easier to mount, and give you 1X on the low end and 4X for longer shots.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 10:42
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Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

EoTech and Aimpoint mount flip-u magnifiers.

Be advised: with a magnifier, you magnify both the target size and the dot size.

This is not a good option for anything beyond 300 yards - and is not ideal for precision shot placement.

For your stated needs, I'd go with a 3-9 and the SS3-9 is the best one going.

Another option would be a good 1-4X, it'd be shorter, easier to mount, and give you 1X on the low end and 4X for longer shots.
 
I've actually got to shoot a few different Eo's (512 and 552) and Aimpoints. I'd love to be able to simply be able to slap a quality red dot on but for longer range shooting it doesn't do much good. Really wish i could hook the ACOG TA31 up and call it a day, but it'd simply take to long to save up. I'm getting married in April and the future wife was nice enough to allow me to purchase the LMT. Don't think i can pursuade her to take the money haul from the wedding and let me put an elite site on it lol.
 
Rancid, what would you recommend in the 1-4x class?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 11:11
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Chief Sackscratch

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Congrats on the upcoming wedding and don't count the ACOG out yet.   $500 would buy you a good used ACOG if you can find one.  The last ACOG I purchase was used and at the range from a guy who was complaining about his groups, he tells me ever time I see him he wishes he still had it but deals are out there.  You can always try to talk her into letting you use some of the money you will get from the wedding for gun stuff.  I got married last June and my wife registered for stuff that shes says "we needed" but she knew it was for her so she let me blow a big portion of the cash we got on gun stuff talk to her and maybe she will let you! 
As far as magnifiers go there is a company out there called "mako" I think, that sales cheaper ones in a couple magizens I have seen.  but they dont' work very good at all from the reviews i have read
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 12:24
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Since you have other firearms for close-in action, take the Marine's advice and get the SS 3-9X. There are a lot of shots you can still make under 50 yards on 3X. And here's some more advice: Don't overdo it, but make one last big purchase before you are married. It's the last time you'll only have to run it by just yourself! My wife can't understand why I have put as much money into firearm-related purchases as I have, but then I remind her that the total I've ever spent on shooting and hunting is less than a used Harley.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 13:36
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Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Since you have other firearms for close-in action, take the Marine's advice and get the SS 3-9X. There are a lot of shots you can still make under 50 yards on 3X. And here's some more advice: Don't overdo it, but make one last big purchase before you are married. It's the last time you'll only have to run it by just yourself! My wife can't understand why I have put as much money into firearm-related purchases as I have, but then I remind her that the total I've ever spent on shooting and hunting is less than a used Harley.
 
I do like what i've read on the 3-9x from them. The one great quality about my fiancee is she undertands my hobbies and says as long as it's extra money she doesn't mind me keeping up with them. Obviously there are more practical things coming up like a house, kids, etc but it's nice to know some of those hobbies (like hunting and guns) won't be swept away completely.
 
Anyway, keep feeding me ideas if you have them. Definately will check into the SS, but i'd like a few different options for comarison.
 
Thanks again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 14:06
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Trijicon 1.25-4x24 Accu-Point Rifle Scope German #4 Crosshair w/ Green Dot Trijicon 1.25-4x24 Accu-Point Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR213G
  • Matte
  • German #4 Crosshair w/ Green Dot
  • 1"
$678.95



That'd be my highest recommendation, it is a great optic and works very well on an AR platform.

Other options are a Vortex 1-4 (not yet out) or a Bushnell 4200:

Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope 4A w/ Illuminated Dot Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope
Stock # - 421424M
  • Matte
  • 4A w/ Illuminated Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rainguard
  • Free Fleece Pullover (Mail-In Coupon)
$454.95


There are many 1-4X optics on the market, many are not good, avoid the cheaper stuff (<$250)  as they have generally bad build quality and not great glass.

The Bushnell is in your price range and is a good scope.  The Trijicon is a little over yours tated price but is well worth the extra $$ as it is well made and is self-illuminated (no "on" button.)



Also, for mounting, SWFA has a SALT mount for flat tops that works quite well and is very reasonably priced, look at that too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 15:36
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What are the feelings on the Viper PST 1-4x from Vortex? I know they're rising fast among shooters everwhere and generally get oustanding reviews. The PST is slightly more than id like to spend but i could justify it, if really worth spending more than say a bushnell.

 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 16:46
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In truth, I've never handled a PST, I don't think they are out yet.

I have asked "trusted sources" to play with the display model at SHOT (and buy it for me, if possible) but cannot say anything definitive yet.

That understood, I have been impressed with the vortex optics I have handled (all but their red dot, but at least they took care of my problems quickly.)  The Viper series are quite good for the price, their new tactical Razer is being very well accepted, and I expect good things from the PST line, but have yet to handle one.

The Trijicon is top shelf - and the newer TR24 is even better - and priced accordingly.  I have been a Trijicon fan for years and have recently embraced their Accupoint lines and have really, really enjyed owning a few variants.  The glass, for the money, is quite good.


I have not owned the Bushnell 4200 but have looked at one and talked to a few owners.  The info I hear is they are far beyond Millett ( a $200 1-4) but not quite Accupoint.

The top of the heap, in my humble opinion, remains the Nightforce 1-4.

Finally, several companies are set to release 1-4X and/or 1-8X, 1-10X this year.  It looks to be a good year for those wanting low AND mid-level magnification.


If you need a good 1-4 now, I'd go with the Accupoint (TR24) first, the Accupoint (TR21) next, then Bushnell.  If you have $1000+ to spend, you will not be displeased with the Nightforce; however, you may wish you had waited a few months, new stuff coming that looks quite promising. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 17:00
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Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks Rancid,
 
I'm definately not putting in my purchase order until the tax return hits my bank account so i do have some time on my side until it's time to make a final decision on optics. I have heard about the 1-8'sx and that to me would be ideal for what i want to do. Will be interesting to see what companies come out with that variation. If it's favorable to wait a few months for a reputable, id have no problems doing so as i think a 1-8 or 1-10 would be pefect for what i'd like to accomplish. A semi compact 1-8x would be a dream scenario, especially if the glass is a quality product.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 01:36
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10816 Trijicon 3-9x40 Accu-Point TR20, Matte finish, Amber Triangle reticle, fast focus eye piece, light ring marks   $499.95
10640 Trijicon 3x24 Compact Acog TA50R4, Matte finish, Red Crosshair reticle, BAC, in store display model $599.95
10829 Trijicon 2x20 Compact Acog TA47-4, Matte finish, Amber cross hair reticle, with carry handle adapter, BAC $599.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 08:03
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On the Trijicon 3-9x where did you see it for $499.95? Ive only seen it in the 6-700 range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 08:07
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Chief Sackscratch

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 08:35
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Optics GrassHopper
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Wow there are some amazing deals on that list. Thanks for the heads up there.
 
Oh, are all products there used? I noticed some say used condition but not all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 08:43
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Chief Sackscratch

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Originally posted by USAF1 USAF1 wrote:

Wow there are some amazing deals on that list. Thanks for the heads up there.
 
Oh, are all products there used? I noticed some say used condition but not all.
 
From my understanding and asking a few guys, the sample list is made up of trade in items, dealer samples that are now for sale, or display models that have come off the show floor.  There may be other ways they make it to the samplelist and I am sure others more knowledgeable will chime in.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 08:44
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Some are "used", many are demo or refurbished. 

There are, quite often, some very good deals on the sample list.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 14:42
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I'm really liking what i see from the ACOG compacts. I got a chance to test fire a few back in my military days while in Balad Iraq. Don't remember the specific type but they were top notch, especially for closer shooting.

I'm definatley interested in the 1-4x and like Rancid posted above am amped to see what 1-8x's come out this year.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 14:52
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Don't hold your breath on the 1-8X scopes, it might be "awhile" before they make it to market.

ACOGs do some things very well.

If you get the chance, look at a Trijicon 1-4X, it might be just what you are looking for.



Edited for terrible spelling.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - January/20/2010 at 15:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 15:11
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Burris XTR 1-4x24 P.E.P.R. & Fastfire.
 
Really like the looks of that sight. Not finding that many reviews out there though. A bit more than i'd like to spend but definately fits what'd id like to do.
 
Anyone out there have any info on this particular item?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2010 at 12:33
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Had a question regarding mini red dot sights. I've always had in mind mounting some sort of mini on top of a main 1-4x or 3-9x etc.

For instance i was looking at the Insight MRDS red dot with the 3.5 MOA dot. What is that compatible with? And if it is able to be mounted with a sight, how is that accomplished?

Thanks
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