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Question about Leupold scopes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2004 at 07:40
t0lik View Drop Down
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Hello guys, I'm new to the forum and optics, so bear with me please :)

I have a dilemma: I'm planning to buy SIG SSG3000 rifle in Level II or Level III package. Level II package comes with Leupold Vari-X lll 3.5-10x40mm Duplex scope, and

Level III with Leupold Mark 4 M1 10x40 Mil-Dot scope. The difference in price for me would be $400-$500. Here is the problem that I'm facing... Mark 4 of course is more expensive.. it's like

$1300, while VX-III is around $500... However, that Mark 4 is apparently fixed magnification at X10, correct? I plan to do some competition and long range varmint shooting, and maybe sometime do a

wild boar hunt... I would think I need a variable scope.. Am I right? Or that Mark 4 will do just fine for what I'm planning to do? And why it's so expensive, if's it's fixed power?? There are other Mark 4 scopes that are variable which cost less... What am I missing here? Can someone clear this up fo me? Most likely I will go for Level III with Mark 4 anyways... I think I can always sell it, if  doesn't work out for me, right? Do you think I can sell it for $800-900 or so? Anyways, please help me out to decide what to do.

 

 

Thanks

 

Tony



Edited by t0lik
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2004 at 08:54
redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
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i think i would get jsut the gun, and either a MK4 3.5-10, or 4.5-14 with mildot. i wouldnt want a fixed 10x scope to hunt wild boar with. and what is "long range varmint shooting" to you???

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2004 at 10:58
t0lik View Drop Down
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I can't find "just the gun" ie Level I for reasonable price. I found a dealer, but he only has Levels II and III in stock... no Level I. Anyone knows a dealer that sells Level I for around $2000-$2200? Long range shooting would be small targets at 250+ yards range... Well, at least for me it would be "long range" at the beginning...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2004 at 17:21
redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
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well, then buy the one of the other levels, sell the scope, and get the one you want.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2004 at 05:53
VanMojo View Drop Down
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I can tell you why it's so expensive, though you may not still want it.

 

The Mark 4 10x and 16x fixed power scopes are done to military specs.  The maintubes for those scopes are the strongest offered by Leupold, and probably have twice as much metal as the other scopes Leupold offers.  Don't worry about being extra heavy or anything; most of the weight of any scope is the glass in the lenses, not the maintube.

 

The Mark 4 fixed power scopes also have far more anti-glare lightstops installed inside the scope.

 

A lot of these scopes are sold to government agencies around the world (not just in the US) and they are held to the highest quality standards because of that.  It is quite probably overkill for most uses, but you are getting something for that extra cash.

 

I used to work for Leupold, and I worked on the Mark 4 fixed power on multiple occasions, but I wasn't an engineer or marketing guy, so I can't guarantee the above information to be 100% accurate, and it definitely isn't an "official" Leupold statement.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2004 at 17:50
t0lik View Drop Down
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Ok, after all, I decided to go with level I package which comes without scope.. So, now I'm looking for a scope for this rifle. About me and rifle usage: I have an excellent eyesight (20x15), will use the rifle mostly for bench shooting, target matches/competitions, and varmint hunting. Most likely will not use it for regular hunting, except maybe occasional mid-long range wild boar hunt. Here is a list of scopes I'm trying to choose from:

Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 6.5-20x50 illum mildot
Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 4.5-14x50 illum mildot
IOR Valdada 6-24x50 Tactical Illuminated MP8

Nightforce nxs 5.5x22x50

I'm trying to stay away from 56mm bells... too big for my taste.. even though they may perform better, I will not go for one. Would consider 40-50mm only...

As you can see, all the scopes I  picked have illum reticles. Do  you think I don't really need one considering my very good eyesight? Most of the shooting will be at ranges and in a desert during a day... May do some shooting closer to dusk... So, what do you guys think? Any recommendations/suggestions? I want to order my scope tomorrow, since my rifle should be here in 12-14 days.. I want to have everything ready (scope, rings, bipod etc) when I pickup my rifle. Aso, I will most likely go with Badger rings (rifle will have Picatinny rail), as I heard they are the best.. Should I go for high rings since I'm most likely buying 50mm scope?

I'm trying to stay within $1000 range, but if Nightforce is that much better, I can cough up a little more to get one.

 

Thanks for all your help!
 



Edited by t0lik
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2004 at 18:37
chasseur106 View Drop Down
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tOlik,

     I think that you are selecting from some of the top performers out there.  Yes, I would say so.   For varmint hunting you don't state whether you are planning to carry that rifle around to different areas and shoot like I normally do, but rather that you would be using this for a match or two in competition.  With a wild boar hunt thrown in.   I wonder if this is your first rifle/ scope purchase, just by how you describe it?  Have you shot a rifle with a scope on it?

       I am not criticizing, rather trying to observe you and how you feel and write about what you are going to do with this rig.  Most guys do not start out with such premium optical packages, or even consider them, so my hat is off to you for taking the higher road..  My opinion is based only on my experience and those of my shooting buddies, so it may not even be worth considering       

        It has been my experience that the smaller the bell diameter, down to 40mm to be ideal for varmint hunting( The walking around and sitting for 1/2- 1 hour type), as well as the long range type of shooting that you will want to do with it.  The reason is simple when you figure out your shooting requirements for good tiny groups at 100 yards, so that you can place bullets with confidence out to 3-500 yards.

           In order to shoot well, one thing you must have is a consistant cheek to stock "weld", whereby you are placing your head ( cheek) firmly on top of the rifle buttstock and looking at the scope in the same manner from shot to shot. In as nearly the same position as possible.  If the comb of your rifle is of the monte carlo type, no problem...  You adjust the scope's position backward until your eyeball finds it easy to line up with the center of the reticle, and the position that you will hold when firing it.  The fact that you are using a picatinny rail system even lends itself to this function, very nicely!!

          If your rifle does not come with a monte carlo comb, that is where a 40 mm will serve you better.  Because you want your rifle to work for you and not you to work for your rifle.  Do you understand this last statement?  If shooting your rifle becomes a chore, even with such premium optics you will find it a drag to use, and it will be sold or stored without much use.  I want to encourage you to try to do what you want with a 40mm objective.  Since you are doing this during the day mostly, you will want to minimize your silhouette to even a potential wild boar or ground hog at 300 + yards.  

             The other reason is this.   A closer relationship between the objective end of the scope and the center of bore axis to your rifle will yield more satisfying results when you sight this in at the range.   Talk to others at the shop where you are buying this rifle and scope combo, see what they feel.  I think that you will find that they agree with this line of thinking.

   Let me know if this helps you.

                   Have safe and fun time with this.

                       Scott

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2004 at 18:47
chasseur106 View Drop Down
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The other thing is if you buy one of those with an illuminated reticle...  Not that that is a bad thing, considering whom you are going to buy them from, but I have always found that sometimes a gimmick is still a gimmick.  I would have bought one of these illuminated reticles myself if I thought that they would always work given the conditions that I hunt under.  I cannot say that they are a bad idea, but when they break, will it blow the hunt?  Or ruin your day?  Another thing to break, is all I can think of at this time.  Certainly not something that will be required for target shooting, if that is still your primary use.  And daylight can drain a battery rather quickly, given the bright conditions that you will be shooting under.  Your eyesight is excellent, your optical choices are among the best, how much more do you want?  

        Other than GOD giving you the critter on a silver plate at your feet, I would say anymore is not really hunting, it is exterminating with extreme prejudice. 

           Just my thoughts.

                  Scott 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2004 at 19:10
t0lik View Drop Down
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chasseur, thanks alot for your suggestions. I will not carry the rifle around much... It will most likely be stationary position shooting.

To make it easier to see what kind of stock/cheekpiece it has, here is a link with some pictures of this rifle:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=61 69345

The rifle on the picture already has scope installed. I'm buying the one without. I will also purchase Picatinny rail adapter from Sigarms.

I'm new to sniper/scope rifle style shooting. I'm not new to shooting and marksmanship in general... I was born in Russia and in high school, we had to take military preparedness/shooting classes (shooting .22 cal and AKs) and participate in shooting competitions between local schools (with .22 cal). I always took 1st place. Then, during '87-'89, I served in soviet army, where we had shooting competitions within our brigade with AKs. Again, pretty much all the time I was on the top. So, I can shoot very well with iron sights - my guess it's probably even easier with a scope. I decided to go with SIG for many reasons... I know there are very good custom made rifles based on Rem 700 or Savage. However, that's what I decided to go with. I want to go with the best optics I can afford - I always try to buy the best I can at the moment, especially for thing that will serve me for a long time to come.



Edited by t0lik
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2004 at 21:03
chasseur106 View Drop Down
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Hello tOlik,

      Yes, I did it again without wanting to do so...  I did not wish to offend you.  It seems as though I did, I am sorry.  I only stated what I did because of how you described it.

          I am glad that you are going with premium optics, as most people do not.  I also, think that your choice of rifle is commendable.  Most people try to buy as cheap as possible on everything.  I am glad to see that you do not. 

         Yes you are correct in thinking that shooting with a scope is easier than with open sights.  Cover it with the crosshairs, squeeze the trigger and breathe properly so as not to throw off your shot are assumables. That is to say they are part of a the grand equation in getting the bullets where you want them to be... In tiny groups at 100, 200, or 500 meters.  No matter the conditions.  Wind has more to say about the feasability of that at the longer distances.  As well as mirage.

           I used to teach marksmanship in the U.S. Army, and was captain of the rifle team there.  We shot with the service rifle at that time.  AR-15's. 

             I own 9 rifles.  None are semi automatics.  Because I have had enough of that while in the Army.  I have two lever actions.  A .22 LR, and a .30-.30 WCF.  The rest range from a .223 bolt action CZ to a Ruger .22-250 that I regularly use on the prime Pennsylvania pasture poodles that are infesting many farmer's fields around here.  It has a Burris 6-24X44mm Signature scope on it.  I try to limit my shots to 150 yards or more to give the little fellas a chance.  A head shot is the only shot I will take.

             From there I just built a .25-' 06 from a used 8mm Mauser action.  I put a premium barrel on it, changed the safety, put in a drop magazine, kept the original trigger, but had it stoned to 1.75 pounds let off. 

          I have two .30- ' 06's and one .300 Win magnum that I got just for a hunt next year.  I hope I can talk with you more. 

                 Good shooting.

                      Scott

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